really real
2008-09-23 13:42:59 UTC
No one seems to know the reason for the current rise in autism rates
since the 1980s, but everyone knows it is a very serious problem. For
the parents of autistic children, autism is a terrible burden, and there
is much controversy about the different therapies that might or might
not help, and how society will pay for these very expensive therapies.
Recently there have been victims of autism who claim to have been cured,
and others who can describe what it's like to be autistic, and there are
even some who claim autism is a form of culture that should be
preserved. However, for almost every parent of autistic children, the
issue is how to get their kids to reach some kind of normalcy in their
lives.
And so far, science has not found the smoking gun that is causing the
increase in autism, as childhood vaccines, once thought to be the cause,
have been found safe in recent tests.
Wikepedia defines autism as "a brain development disorder that is
characterized by impaired social interaction and communication, and
restricted and repetitive behavior, all starting before a child is three
years old." Some researchers think of autism as a disease:
http://www.neuroimmunedr.com/present3/index.htm
but it seems to me that words like "disease" "disorder" and
"disability", in describing autism, are merely semantic differences.
Similarly, there is a blending of the difference between autism and its
milder form, Asperger's Syndrome, and of the related disorder of
Attention Deficit, or ADD.
There also seems to be a relationship between autism and genius. Think
of Dustin Hoffman in the Rain Man, with his incredible memory. Bill
Gates is thought to suffer from Asperger's. I noticed, watching Ray
Charles on the Dick Cavett show, how Ray couldn't sit still for a
minute. And then, the obvious next question is whether there is a
connection between Bob Dylan's genius and autism.
There seems to be something about great artists who have to put their
artistic endeavors ahead of the way they treat normal people. This was
the theme of Woody Allen's Sweet and Lowdown, where Sean Penn played a
jazz guitarist who felt he was above society's rules, which was a good
metaphor for Woody's behaviour at the time. Bob Dylan, and the way he
treats people, could make another example of autistic artistry.
The movie "I'm Not There" certainly centered on this theme, when the
Kate Blanchett Bob storms out of the limousine after being accused of
not caring about people. And the song itself, "I'm Not There" seems to
have the same theme. The singer in "I'm Not There" wants to care, but he
can't, because he isn't there. Is he somewhere else, or is he just not
connected?
A simple google of the words "Dylan autism" brought up this interesting
thread on the topic:
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/pa111111117/rita.html#Bob%20Dylan
Is Bob Dylan mildly Autistic?
Last night I watched part II of Martin Scorsese's documentary on Bob
Dylan: No Direction Home. I must say that it was well done. Scorsese did
an excellent job. Then main point that emerged from the documentary was
that Dylan was/is an artist who simply wanted/wants to write and sing
songs and above all, do it his way. When Dylan went electric, he risked it
all but emerged larger than life. Moreover, very candid interviews with
the present day Dylan seemed to suggest that he never had a political
agenda. Interviews with Joan Baez corroborated Dylan's apolitical
statements. I would have to say that your busking allows you the same
freedom that Dylan enjoys. Of course, if Dylan had been a lesser talent
and not believed in himself, he would have failed. I was also intrigued
by Dylan's answer to a question of what his art was all about. He
simply replied that he is merely trying to find his way home. I guess we
are all just trying to just find our way home.
Hi Mead! I'll have a think about that light issue. But now, I have a
question for your professional judgement:
Having watched that documentary, do you think Bob Dylan is mildly autistic?
In essence, I'm chewing on Asperger's Syndrone. My daughter has been
diagnosed as having this (though personally, and privately, I kinda
mistrust these sort of boxes and prefer private personality study). I
suspect, however, that if a box could be laid my way? I may also fall
somewhat into Aspergers.
Looking at that film, I could see Bob was entirely comfortable
communicating via the channel his autism enthused him toward. But he
seemed to embrace messages from the outside world only if he could apply
them to his autistic world. He seemed to understand why the words were
put into his songs and poetry, but he did not see any need to explain
why he put them there.
Beyond the channel of his autism, I do not think he even KNEW why he put
those words there.
I found the way to my daughter's mind was through the toy cars that she
loved. She just loves cars - and sees them as people in a way more real
than people. In fact, the way in which I introduced the outside world to
her was by relating it to the world she and I built with her toy cars.
If she were ever to become famous as a singer (or whatever) and was
faced by the kind of press meetings (and questions) that Bob
uncomfortably faced, I think she would re-act with the same genuine
confusion over trying to answer questions. Because it seemed Bob could
not make the connection that the issues aroused by the questions had
anything to do with his songs and the playing of music. He wrote a song
and moved on, seeing little need to explain meanings.... possibly
because he couldn't. Everything he had wanted to say was in the song and
belonged harmonically within the channelled world his autism accepted.
Neither his modern day comments, nor his press and radio responses from
the 60's, seemed contrived in any shape or form. He seemed genuinely
confused by what he was being asked.
The years have given him an improved form of expression outside of his
autistic world.
I share his view on art and creativity, in that spending months trying
to perfect a song and package it neatly is anathema. Could have written
a few songs in that time - and some of these would excite a greater
personal interest. All of the transformations of Bob over the years in
his style, genre and presentation fitted neatly into his own imagined
world. He could not explain how they would fit into other people's worlds.
He did not see there was a reason to do this anyway.
He looked at the outside world with his art - and took a 'photograph' of
it. But he could not easily explain why there was a bird in the picture
flying in the distance, even though he was aware of it as he took the
photograph. He could see where it fitted in the picture and the soul
within recognised its crucial relevance to the picture as a whole. For
him, that was enough.
He could not articulate the relevance of that bird to those outside his
world - or even (possibly) to those inside his world.
Autism would render him as a loner, an outsider. There will always be
parts of him the world will never see, nor understand.
So, back to the question:
Do you think Bob Dylan is mildly autistic?
Brian,
I finally have time to answer you question on Dylan. First, we must
examine the criteria for a diagnosis of autism:
1) Impaired reciprocal social interaction relative to developmental level.
2) Impaired verbal and nonverbal communication relative to developmental
level.
3) Abnormally intense and narrow interests.
These individuals often exhibit little eye contact, usually have problems
dealing with social situations, and very often exhibit an obsession with a
certain subject matter like puzzles or numbers. [or writing ten thousand
page journals-just a joke, Brian]!
Studies indicate that a number of artists and mathematicians exhibit
symptoms of autism or in some cases they are autistic.
Focusing in on Dylan. Dylan was a master writer of poems/songs and
apparently interested in little else. Through his gift of verse/song he
was able to create his own abstract world. Which I am sure was very
comforting for him. When you apply the above criteria to Dylan, he was/is
obviously autistic. Otherwise, he would not have created his beautiful and
haunting songs. I can imagine a world without Mr. Tambourine Man, Chimes
Of Freedom, and Like A Rolling Stone but it would be a far less beautiful
world. Think of all the beauty Dylan and his autistic world has given us.
My undergraduate degree was in mathematics and I found it to be very
comforting. Solving a problem or proving a theorem is much like writing
a haiku or a song. One can have order and beauty in an abstract world
which is not subject to the denigration of reality. Anytime , I
experienced a setback, I could always retreat to the safety of the world
of mathematics.
I hope that I have answered your question on Dylan. I am posting the first
two chapters of [Autism : Explaining the Enigma] by Uta Frith, one of the
world's foremost experts on autism. By the way, she is Professor of
Cognitive Development at The Institute of Neuroscience at University
College, London. If you like her writing, check the book out or buy a
copy. I am also posting a copy of {Autism in Mathematicians} by Ioan
James from The Mathematical Intelligencer 2003.
"It seems that for success in science or art a dash of autism is
essential."-Hans Asperger.
since the 1980s, but everyone knows it is a very serious problem. For
the parents of autistic children, autism is a terrible burden, and there
is much controversy about the different therapies that might or might
not help, and how society will pay for these very expensive therapies.
Recently there have been victims of autism who claim to have been cured,
and others who can describe what it's like to be autistic, and there are
even some who claim autism is a form of culture that should be
preserved. However, for almost every parent of autistic children, the
issue is how to get their kids to reach some kind of normalcy in their
lives.
And so far, science has not found the smoking gun that is causing the
increase in autism, as childhood vaccines, once thought to be the cause,
have been found safe in recent tests.
Wikepedia defines autism as "a brain development disorder that is
characterized by impaired social interaction and communication, and
restricted and repetitive behavior, all starting before a child is three
years old." Some researchers think of autism as a disease:
http://www.neuroimmunedr.com/present3/index.htm
but it seems to me that words like "disease" "disorder" and
"disability", in describing autism, are merely semantic differences.
Similarly, there is a blending of the difference between autism and its
milder form, Asperger's Syndrome, and of the related disorder of
Attention Deficit, or ADD.
There also seems to be a relationship between autism and genius. Think
of Dustin Hoffman in the Rain Man, with his incredible memory. Bill
Gates is thought to suffer from Asperger's. I noticed, watching Ray
Charles on the Dick Cavett show, how Ray couldn't sit still for a
minute. And then, the obvious next question is whether there is a
connection between Bob Dylan's genius and autism.
There seems to be something about great artists who have to put their
artistic endeavors ahead of the way they treat normal people. This was
the theme of Woody Allen's Sweet and Lowdown, where Sean Penn played a
jazz guitarist who felt he was above society's rules, which was a good
metaphor for Woody's behaviour at the time. Bob Dylan, and the way he
treats people, could make another example of autistic artistry.
The movie "I'm Not There" certainly centered on this theme, when the
Kate Blanchett Bob storms out of the limousine after being accused of
not caring about people. And the song itself, "I'm Not There" seems to
have the same theme. The singer in "I'm Not There" wants to care, but he
can't, because he isn't there. Is he somewhere else, or is he just not
connected?
A simple google of the words "Dylan autism" brought up this interesting
thread on the topic:
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/pa111111117/rita.html#Bob%20Dylan
Is Bob Dylan mildly Autistic?
Last night I watched part II of Martin Scorsese's documentary on Bob
Dylan: No Direction Home. I must say that it was well done. Scorsese did
an excellent job. Then main point that emerged from the documentary was
that Dylan was/is an artist who simply wanted/wants to write and sing
songs and above all, do it his way. When Dylan went electric, he risked it
all but emerged larger than life. Moreover, very candid interviews with
the present day Dylan seemed to suggest that he never had a political
agenda. Interviews with Joan Baez corroborated Dylan's apolitical
statements. I would have to say that your busking allows you the same
freedom that Dylan enjoys. Of course, if Dylan had been a lesser talent
and not believed in himself, he would have failed. I was also intrigued
by Dylan's answer to a question of what his art was all about. He
simply replied that he is merely trying to find his way home. I guess we
are all just trying to just find our way home.
Hi Mead! I'll have a think about that light issue. But now, I have a
question for your professional judgement:
Having watched that documentary, do you think Bob Dylan is mildly autistic?
In essence, I'm chewing on Asperger's Syndrone. My daughter has been
diagnosed as having this (though personally, and privately, I kinda
mistrust these sort of boxes and prefer private personality study). I
suspect, however, that if a box could be laid my way? I may also fall
somewhat into Aspergers.
Looking at that film, I could see Bob was entirely comfortable
communicating via the channel his autism enthused him toward. But he
seemed to embrace messages from the outside world only if he could apply
them to his autistic world. He seemed to understand why the words were
put into his songs and poetry, but he did not see any need to explain
why he put them there.
Beyond the channel of his autism, I do not think he even KNEW why he put
those words there.
I found the way to my daughter's mind was through the toy cars that she
loved. She just loves cars - and sees them as people in a way more real
than people. In fact, the way in which I introduced the outside world to
her was by relating it to the world she and I built with her toy cars.
If she were ever to become famous as a singer (or whatever) and was
faced by the kind of press meetings (and questions) that Bob
uncomfortably faced, I think she would re-act with the same genuine
confusion over trying to answer questions. Because it seemed Bob could
not make the connection that the issues aroused by the questions had
anything to do with his songs and the playing of music. He wrote a song
and moved on, seeing little need to explain meanings.... possibly
because he couldn't. Everything he had wanted to say was in the song and
belonged harmonically within the channelled world his autism accepted.
Neither his modern day comments, nor his press and radio responses from
the 60's, seemed contrived in any shape or form. He seemed genuinely
confused by what he was being asked.
The years have given him an improved form of expression outside of his
autistic world.
I share his view on art and creativity, in that spending months trying
to perfect a song and package it neatly is anathema. Could have written
a few songs in that time - and some of these would excite a greater
personal interest. All of the transformations of Bob over the years in
his style, genre and presentation fitted neatly into his own imagined
world. He could not explain how they would fit into other people's worlds.
He did not see there was a reason to do this anyway.
He looked at the outside world with his art - and took a 'photograph' of
it. But he could not easily explain why there was a bird in the picture
flying in the distance, even though he was aware of it as he took the
photograph. He could see where it fitted in the picture and the soul
within recognised its crucial relevance to the picture as a whole. For
him, that was enough.
He could not articulate the relevance of that bird to those outside his
world - or even (possibly) to those inside his world.
Autism would render him as a loner, an outsider. There will always be
parts of him the world will never see, nor understand.
So, back to the question:
Do you think Bob Dylan is mildly autistic?
Brian,
I finally have time to answer you question on Dylan. First, we must
examine the criteria for a diagnosis of autism:
1) Impaired reciprocal social interaction relative to developmental level.
2) Impaired verbal and nonverbal communication relative to developmental
level.
3) Abnormally intense and narrow interests.
These individuals often exhibit little eye contact, usually have problems
dealing with social situations, and very often exhibit an obsession with a
certain subject matter like puzzles or numbers. [or writing ten thousand
page journals-just a joke, Brian]!
Studies indicate that a number of artists and mathematicians exhibit
symptoms of autism or in some cases they are autistic.
Focusing in on Dylan. Dylan was a master writer of poems/songs and
apparently interested in little else. Through his gift of verse/song he
was able to create his own abstract world. Which I am sure was very
comforting for him. When you apply the above criteria to Dylan, he was/is
obviously autistic. Otherwise, he would not have created his beautiful and
haunting songs. I can imagine a world without Mr. Tambourine Man, Chimes
Of Freedom, and Like A Rolling Stone but it would be a far less beautiful
world. Think of all the beauty Dylan and his autistic world has given us.
My undergraduate degree was in mathematics and I found it to be very
comforting. Solving a problem or proving a theorem is much like writing
a haiku or a song. One can have order and beauty in an abstract world
which is not subject to the denigration of reality. Anytime , I
experienced a setback, I could always retreat to the safety of the world
of mathematics.
I hope that I have answered your question on Dylan. I am posting the first
two chapters of [Autism : Explaining the Enigma] by Uta Frith, one of the
world's foremost experts on autism. By the way, she is Professor of
Cognitive Development at The Institute of Neuroscience at University
College, London. If you like her writing, check the book out or buy a
copy. I am also posting a copy of {Autism in Mathematicians} by Ioan
James from The Mathematical Intelligencer 2003.
"It seems that for success in science or art a dash of autism is
essential."-Hans Asperger.