Discussion:
10 great albums of the 60s
(too old to reply)
pest films
2012-02-26 05:29:34 UTC
Permalink
With the Beatles/Meet the Beatles
Help!
Blonde on Blonde
Highway 61 Revisited
Aftermath
My Generation
Who Sell Out
Velvet Underground and Nico
Pet Sounds
Ummagumma
really real
2012-02-26 16:06:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by pest films
With the Beatles/Meet the Beatles
Help!
Blonde on Blonde
Highway 61 Revisited
Aftermath
My Generation
Who Sell Out
Velvet Underground and Nico
Pet Sounds
Ummagumma
You were doing really well until Ummagumma.

Why were you hip enough to leave out the Beatle's later albums, and yet
you go for Pet Sounds and not Summer Days and Summer Nights?

Two Who albums and no Kinks albums?

Nothing from The Jefferson Airplane or Janis or the lesser selling great
SF groups?

No room for the Doors?

This kind of list making is a fun exercise but ultimately impossible.
You've made it worse than impossible by putting two early albums each
from the Beatles and the Who.

Please try again
iL_WeReo
2012-02-26 17:02:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
Post by pest films
With the Beatles/Meet the Beatles
Help!
Blonde on Blonde
Highway 61 Revisited
Aftermath
My Generation
Who Sell Out
Velvet Underground and Nico
Pet Sounds
Ummagumma
You were doing really well until Ummagumma.
Why were you hip enough to leave out the Beatle's later albums, and yet
you go for Pet Sounds and not Summer Days and Summer Nights?
Two Who albums and no Kinks albums?
Nothing from The Jefferson Airplane or Janis or the lesser selling great
SF groups?
No room for the Doors?
This kind of list making is a fun exercise but ultimately impossible.
You've made it worse than impossible by putting two early albums each
from the Beatles and the Who.
Please try again
There ARE no great albums of the 60s.
gemjack
2012-02-27 13:07:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
Post by pest films
With the Beatles/Meet the Beatles
Help!
Blonde on Blonde
Highway 61 Revisited
Aftermath
My Generation
Who Sell Out
Velvet Underground and Nico
Pet Sounds
Ummagumma
You were doing really well until Ummagumma.
Why were you hip enough to leave out the Beatle's later albums, and yet
you go for Pet Sounds and not Summer Days and Summer Nights?
Two Who albums and no Kinks albums?
Nothing from The Jefferson Airplane or Janis or the lesser selling great
SF groups?
No room for the Doors?
This kind of list making is a fun exercise but ultimately impossible.
You've made it worse than impossible by putting two early albums each
from the Beatles and the Who.
Please try again
Speaking for my perspective, I have to agree. Though it's always
pleasing to see the Velvet Underground get some recognition.

-gj
RichL
2012-02-27 16:41:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by gemjack
Post by really real
Post by pest films
With the Beatles/Meet the Beatles
Help!
Blonde on Blonde
Highway 61 Revisited
Aftermath
My Generation
Who Sell Out
Velvet Underground and Nico
Pet Sounds
Ummagumma
You were doing really well until Ummagumma.
Why were you hip enough to leave out the Beatle's later albums, and yet
you go for Pet Sounds and not Summer Days and Summer Nights?
Two Who albums and no Kinks albums?
Nothing from The Jefferson Airplane or Janis or the lesser selling great
SF groups?
No room for the Doors?
This kind of list making is a fun exercise but ultimately impossible.
You've made it worse than impossible by putting two early albums each
from the Beatles and the Who.
Please try again
Speaking for my perspective, I have to agree. Though it's always
pleasing to see the Velvet Underground get some recognition.
Critics seem to like VU a hell of a lot more than the listening public.
F'rinstance, here's wiki's list of best selling albums ever:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums

I counted 68 albums listed, and not a single VU album.

So I'd say VU gets a lot of recognition but not a hell of a lot of public
love.
gemjack
2012-02-27 17:46:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
Post by gemjack
Post by really real
Post by pest films
With the Beatles/Meet the Beatles
Help!
Blonde on Blonde
Highway 61 Revisited
Aftermath
My Generation
Who Sell Out
Velvet Underground and Nico
Pet Sounds
Ummagumma
You were doing really well until Ummagumma.
Why were you hip enough to leave out the Beatle's later albums, and yet
you go for Pet Sounds and not Summer Days and Summer Nights?
Two Who albums and no Kinks albums?
Nothing from The Jefferson Airplane or Janis or the lesser selling great
SF groups?
No room for the Doors?
This kind of list making is a fun exercise but ultimately impossible.
You've made it worse than impossible by putting two early albums each
from the Beatles and the Who.
Please try again
Speaking for my perspective, I have to agree. Though it's always
pleasing to see the Velvet Underground get some recognition.
Critics seem to like VU a hell of a lot more than the listening public.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums
I counted 68 albums listed, and not a single VU album.
So I'd say VU gets a lot of recognition but not a hell of a lot of public
love.
Sounds about right, hence my emissions of positive ions at seeing them
mentioned at all.

If I ever mention to someone that I like the VU, they just kind of
stand there until I say 'you know, Lou Reed', then they're like 'oh
yeah, yeah, ok'.

-gj
RichL
2012-02-27 17:57:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by gemjack
Post by RichL
Post by gemjack
Post by really real
Post by pest films
With the Beatles/Meet the Beatles
Help!
Blonde on Blonde
Highway 61 Revisited
Aftermath
My Generation
Who Sell Out
Velvet Underground and Nico
Pet Sounds
Ummagumma
You were doing really well until Ummagumma.
Why were you hip enough to leave out the Beatle's later albums, and yet
you go for Pet Sounds and not Summer Days and Summer Nights?
Two Who albums and no Kinks albums?
Nothing from The Jefferson Airplane or Janis or the lesser selling great
SF groups?
No room for the Doors?
This kind of list making is a fun exercise but ultimately impossible.
You've made it worse than impossible by putting two early albums each
from the Beatles and the Who.
Please try again
Speaking for my perspective, I have to agree. Though it's always
pleasing to see the Velvet Underground get some recognition.
Critics seem to like VU a hell of a lot more than the listening public.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums
I counted 68 albums listed, and not a single VU album.
So I'd say VU gets a lot of recognition but not a hell of a lot of public
love.
Sounds about right, hence my emissions of positive ions at seeing them
mentioned at all.
If I ever mention to someone that I like the VU, they just kind of
stand there until I say 'you know, Lou Reed', then they're like 'oh
yeah, yeah, ok'.
Well, I knew who they were back in the 60s, but I gotta say they barely
registered on my radar back then. I can't deny their influence on a lot of
later music, but I gotta say that they just seemed to be in a different
direction from most of what was going on back then. I thought of them as
some sort of novelty act, something to make New Yorkers think they were part
of what was happening, as it were. Of course, The Fugs were already doing
that ;-)
gemjack
2012-02-27 19:03:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
Post by gemjack
Post by RichL
Post by gemjack
Post by really real
Post by pest films
With the Beatles/Meet the Beatles
Help!
Blonde on Blonde
Highway 61 Revisited
Aftermath
My Generation
Who Sell Out
Velvet Underground and Nico
Pet Sounds
Ummagumma
You were doing really well until Ummagumma.
Why were you hip enough to leave out the Beatle's later albums, and yet
you go for Pet Sounds and not Summer Days and Summer Nights?
Two Who albums and no Kinks albums?
Nothing from The Jefferson Airplane or Janis or the lesser selling great
SF groups?
No room for the Doors?
This kind of list making is a fun exercise but ultimately impossible.
You've made it worse than impossible by putting two early albums each
from the Beatles and the Who.
Please try again
Speaking for my perspective, I have to agree. Though it's always
pleasing to see the Velvet Underground get some recognition.
Critics seem to like VU a hell of a lot more than the listening public.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums
I counted 68 albums listed, and not a single VU album.
So I'd say VU gets a lot of recognition but not a hell of a lot of public
love.
Sounds about right, hence my emissions of positive ions at seeing them
mentioned at all.
If I ever mention to someone that I like the VU, they just kind of
stand there until I say 'you know, Lou Reed', then they're like 'oh
yeah, yeah, ok'.
Well, I knew who they were back in the 60s, but I gotta say they barely
registered on my radar back then. I can't deny their influence on a lot of
later music, but I gotta say that they just seemed to be in a different
direction from most of what was going on back then. I thought of them as
some sort of novelty act, something to make New Yorkers think they were part
of what was happening, as it were. Of course, The Fugs were already doing
that ;-)
I tend to like the debut (with Nico) and Loaded the most, but to be
honest I can't even remember last time I heard them all the way
through. Been at least a decade, or more. Their hit-and-miss
characteristic of having 'listenable' material for the masses strikes
me as a similarity shared with the White Stripes, though that may be
their only shared trait.

-gj
poisoned rose
2012-02-27 23:16:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums
I counted 68 albums listed, and not a single VU album.
Do you really think it's fair to say VU isn't popular because they
didn't have one of the 68 top-selling albums ever?

There are less than 50 different artists on that list. So, anyone else
should be sniffed at for being not so popular?

Some artists I don't see on that list include Elvis Presley, Garth
Brooks, Billy Joel, Elton John, Aerosmith, the Rolling Stones, Van
Halen, Neil Diamond, Frank Sinatra, that Dylan dude....on and on.

Sure, VU is more critically acclaimed than mainstream-popular. But it's
not as if they're "obscure."

I'd guess that VU has sold more copies than well over half of the
artists in my collection. Hardly a scientific guess, but...a guess. I'm
sure there are even '60s artists I like who have less accumulated sales.
Including some historically significant names like the 13th Floor
Elevators, Can, Captain Beefheart, the Fugs, Morton Subotnick, Silver
Apples, the Kaleidoscope, the Monks, Charles Wuorinen, Nick Drake, Tim
Buckley.... I'm just guessing, but there you go.

The first three VU albums all charted back in the day, even if it was at
the bottom of the top 200. The '80s "VU" compilation charted as high as
#85.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 00:21:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
I'd guess that VU has sold more copies than well over half of the
artists in my collection. Hardly a scientific guess, but...a guess.
Making an extra effort to substantiate this....

My databasin' data indicates that about a sixth of the artists who have
albums in my collection have a Gold album in the US. So, my above "well
over half" estimate is probably quite conservative.

It would be interesting to know how close VU is to getting a Gold album.
Maybe I'll ask one of my friends with SoundScan access.

All I can find on the Web is one article that says "The Velvet
Underground & Nico" (which I assume is their top seller?) passed 100K
sales in 1976. And just think about all the VU-influenced acts who arose
after 1976 and boosted the group's notoriety.
RichL
2012-02-28 01:30:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by RichL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums
I counted 68 albums listed, and not a single VU album.
Do you really think it's fair to say VU isn't popular because they
didn't have one of the 68 top-selling albums ever?
There are less than 50 different artists on that list. So, anyone else
should be sniffed at for being not so popular?
Some artists I don't see on that list include Elvis Presley, Garth
Brooks, Billy Joel, Elton John, Aerosmith, the Rolling Stones, Van
Halen, Neil Diamond, Frank Sinatra, that Dylan dude....on and on.
Sure, VU is more critically acclaimed than mainstream-popular. But it's
not as if they're "obscure."
I'd guess that VU has sold more copies than well over half of the
artists in my collection. Hardly a scientific guess, but...a guess. I'm
sure there are even '60s artists I like who have less accumulated sales.
Including some historically significant names like the 13th Floor
Elevators, Can, Captain Beefheart, the Fugs, Morton Subotnick, Silver
Apples, the Kaleidoscope, the Monks, Charles Wuorinen, Nick Drake, Tim
Buckley.... I'm just guessing, but there you go.
The first three VU albums all charted back in the day, even if it was at
the bottom of the top 200. The '80s "VU" compilation charted as high as
#85.
You miss my point. It's a matter of proportion. I wouldn't say they're
insignificant at all, just not SUFFICIENTLY significant to have one of their
albums considered one of the ten greatest albums of the 60s, especially if
their highest-charting album only reached #85 and only reached that level
two decades after the fact.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't consider an album by the 13th Floor
Elevators, Can, Captain Beefheart, the Fugs, Morton Subotnick, Silver
Apples, the Kaleidoscope, the Monks, Charles Wuorinen, Nick Drake, or Tim
Buckley to be worthy of consideration for one of the ten greatest albums of
the 60s either.

As I said elsewhere, VU gets credit for "harbinger of things to come", I'll
give them that. But that alone is hardly qualification for meriting one of
the top ten great albums of the 60s.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 02:45:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
You miss my point. It's a matter of proportion. I wouldn't say they're
insignificant at all, just not SUFFICIENTLY significant to have one of their
albums considered one of the ten greatest albums of the 60s, especially if
their highest-charting album only reached #85 and only reached that level
two decades after the fact.
I don't know why you put that much emphasis on sheer sales.

What if someone said it was one of the 10 *most influential* albums of
the '60s? How would you feel about that?

In any case, I'd say VU & Nico would be one of *my* favorite 10 albums
of the '60s. So why wouldn't many other people think so too?

Guessing what I would rank higher, though I'd really have to re-listen
to be certain.

Highway 61 Revisited
Pet Sounds
Revolver

I don't know, beyond that. It's a close call and a matter of changing
moods. I'd put Uncle Meat, We're Only in It for the Money, Odessey &
Oracle, Blonde on Blonde, Bringing It All Back Home, Sgt. Pepper and
Trout Mask Replica in VU/Nico's league, but probably nothing else.

Abbey Road is too slick...The White Album is too uneven...Tommy is too
padded...Astral Weeks is too samey and not melodic enough...Beggars
Banquet and the import Aftermath are a bit too rootsy...The Village
Green Preservation Society is a bit too milquetoast...Rubber Soul has
weak tracks...PIper at the Gates of Dawn is too indulgent...Are You
Experienced? is a bit dated.... And a few jazz masterpieces just aren't
my prime stylistic passion. All fantastic albums, but just not quite as
good as VU/Nico.
really real
2012-02-28 02:51:47 UTC
Permalink
.Beggars Banquet and the import Aftermath are a bit too rootsy...The Village
Green Preservation Society is a bit too milquetoast...Rubber Soul has
weak tracks...PIper at the Gates of Dawn is too indulgent...Are You
Experienced? is a bit dated.... And a few jazz masterpieces just aren't
my prime stylistic passion. All fantastic albums, but just not quite as
good as VU/Nico.
Too rootsy? That's a hoot.

VU/Nico is way too arty/farty to make the top ten albums of the 60s. But
admittedly, it's not very rootsy.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 03:07:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
.Beggars Banquet and the import Aftermath are a bit too rootsy...The Village
Green Preservation Society is a bit too milquetoast...Rubber Soul has
weak tracks...PIper at the Gates of Dawn is too indulgent...Are You
Experienced? is a bit dated.... And a few jazz masterpieces just aren't
my prime stylistic passion. All fantastic albums, but just not quite as
good as VU/Nico.
Too rootsy? That's a hoot.
You should try to debate without insulting people, Trolly. In most
cultures, "hooting" at people's sincere opinions is considered impolite.
Post by really real
VU/Nico is way too arty/farty to make the top ten albums of the 60s.
Here again, we see the difference between me obviously presenting views
in terms of a personal opinion, and the newsgroup troll making
objective, baiting proclamations with no sense of individual bias. And
of course, he uses an emotionally hot term like "arty/farty" in the
hopes of being extra-offensive. If I were him and somehow was NOT a
troll, I would have written something like "too experimental" instead.

Needless to say, RR couldn't expand upon on his above opinion in any
sort of convincing way. He's lost, once you press him to expand his
views beyond his sensationalist headlines. That's when he just goes back
to more baiting and taunting.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 03:11:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by really real
Too rootsy? That's a hoot.
You should try to debate without insulting people, Trolly. In most
cultures, "hooting" at people's sincere opinions is considered impolite.
Post by really real
VU/Nico is way too arty/farty to make the top ten albums of the 60s.
Here again, we see the difference between me obviously presenting views
in terms of a personal opinion, and the newsgroup troll making
objective, baiting proclamations with no sense of individual bias. And
of course, he uses an emotionally hot term like "arty/farty" in the
hopes of being extra-offensive. If I were him and somehow was NOT a
troll, I would have written something like "too experimental" instead.
Needless to say, RR couldn't expand upon on his above opinion in any
sort of convincing way. He's lost, once you press him to expand his
views beyond his sensationalist headlines. That's when he just goes back
to more baiting and taunting.
PS In his next post, the newsgroup troll will taunt me for being unable
to appreciate roots music. Because I rank Beggars Banquet and Aftermath
merely among the top 15 or so albums of an entire decade, and this
obviously indicates that I dislike them.
really real
2012-02-28 04:49:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Needless to say, RR couldn't expand upon on his above opinion
The first Velvet Underground album is arty/farty because it takes a
Dylanesque voice and drolls out overlong beatnik ditties. True, it also
has some nice primitive pop, but who can listen to the last two songs on it?

Don't get me wrong, it's a great album, and a very significant album. I
just don't think people should make a religion out of it. And if one is
picking the top ten albums of the decade, and one isn't prejudiced
against "rootsy" music, then this album is not going to make it.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 05:04:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
Post by poisoned rose
Needless to say, RR couldn't expand upon on his above opinion
The first Velvet Underground album is arty/farty because it takes a
Dylanesque voice and drolls out overlong beatnik ditties.
"Beatnik ditties." More of the inflammatory, juvenile rhetoric. Simply
out to offend, rather than to say anything level-headed and analytical.

Oh, and a high-school English teacher probably should know that "droll"
is not a verb. And what, a Dylanesque voice is something *bad* now?
Post by really real
True, it also has some nice primitive pop
Why not just say "I prefer pop music, so I do not enjoy this album's
dissonant extremes"? Is it because such a statement would indicate you
have perspective on your own biases?
Post by really real
, but who can listen to the last two songs on it?
Lots of people, obviously. Why not just debate honestly, minus hyperbole?

One of my favorite moments on the whole album is that point in "European
Son" where there's a startling loud noise, reportedly made by John Cale
violently yanking a chair around and crashing some plates. That's just
thrilling to me, every time. SCARY, even. And then the rave-up section
just LAUNCHES. Wow. I just LOVE that transition.

In case people don't remember what I'm talking about, it happens at :59
in this clip:


Post by really real
Don't get me wrong, it's a great album, and a very significant album. I
just don't think people should make a religion out of it. And if one is
picking the top ten albums of the decade, and one isn't prejudiced
against "rootsy" music, then this album is not going to make it.
Well, of course, I already predicted your disingenuous "against rootsy
music" taunt before it happened.

So, since Rolling Stone has named this not only one of the 10 best
albums of the '60s but the 13th best album EVER, I guess this means
Rolling Stone is prejudiced against rootsy music too, right? Make sure
to just ignore this paragraph and post a childish taunt instead. Thanks.
really real
2012-02-28 15:10:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
So, since Rolling Stone has named this not only one of the 10 best
albums of the '60s but the 13th best album EVER, I guess this means
Rolling Stone is prejudiced against rootsy music too, right?
I love the way you always quote sources like Rolling Stone to justify
your opinions.What's next? You won't be embarrassed to be seen carrying
Modern Screen magazine?

Why are you so defensive about your beliefs?

VU+Nico is too hipply primitive to compete with the great albums of the
60s, like Surrealistic Pillow, or the Doors first album. Sure, twerps
like you might like it the best, because you were molded by the crap
that came after, but we wiser folks who grew up with 60s music know
better. How many times do you want to listen to Heroin? Why doesn't Lou
sing that one anymore? The Stones are still doing Sympathy for the Devil.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 21:36:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
Post by poisoned rose
So, since Rolling Stone has named this not only one of the 10 best
albums of the '60s but the 13th best album EVER, I guess this means
Rolling Stone is prejudiced against rootsy music too, right?
I love the way you always quote sources like Rolling Stone to justify
your opinions.
Yes...see, that's a way of substantiating opinions. As opposed to, say,
the Really Real method. Where you just precede your rash proclamations
with "Of course" and believe this makes them more true.

Nice job of dodging the point, of course. Why don't you just spout more
of your usual ill-informed, overconfident negativity and trash Rolling
Stone magazine too? Obviously your musical acumen far exceeds theirs.
Why did you hesitate to bulldoze ahead with that?
Post by really real
VU+Nico is too hipply primitive to compete with the great albums of the
60s, like Surrealistic Pillow, or the Doors first album. Sure, twerps
like you might like it the best, because you were molded by the crap
that came after, but we wiser folks who grew up with 60s music know
better. How many times do you want to listen to Heroin? Why doesn't Lou
sing that one anymore? The Stones are still doing Sympathy for the Devil.
You're just childishly trolling again. Nothing real from you. Impossible
for you to have one discussion without trolling.
RichL
2012-02-28 05:07:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by RichL
You miss my point. It's a matter of proportion. I wouldn't say they're
insignificant at all, just not SUFFICIENTLY significant to have one of their
albums considered one of the ten greatest albums of the 60s, especially if
their highest-charting album only reached #85 and only reached that level
two decades after the fact.
I don't know why you put that much emphasis on sheer sales.
I would say that sales is one of a few important factors. Given how many
*good* albums emerged from the sixties, the best criteria for greatness
require that *all* these important factors be checked off.
Post by poisoned rose
What if someone said it was one of the 10 *most influential* albums of
the '60s? How would you feel about that?
I'd probably be more comfortable with it.
Post by poisoned rose
In any case, I'd say VU & Nico would be one of *my* favorite 10 albums
of the '60s. So why wouldn't many other people think so too?
Because you're projecting your own tastes onto the general public. What I'd
say is, if that many people felt as strongly as you do, many more people
would have bought the album.
Post by poisoned rose
Guessing what I would rank higher, though I'd really have to re-listen
to be certain.
Highway 61 Revisited
Pet Sounds
Revolver
No issue with any of these three...
Post by poisoned rose
I don't know, beyond that. It's a close call and a matter of changing
moods. I'd put Uncle Meat, We're Only in It for the Money, Odessey &
Oracle, Blonde on Blonde, Bringing It All Back Home, Sgt. Pepper and
Trout Mask Replica in VU/Nico's league, but probably nothing else.
Abbey Road is too slick...The White Album is too uneven...Tommy is too
padded...Astral Weeks is too samey and not melodic enough...Beggars
Banquet and the import Aftermath are a bit too rootsy...The Village
Green Preservation Society is a bit too milquetoast...Rubber Soul has
weak tracks...PIper at the Gates of Dawn is too indulgent...Are You
Experienced? is a bit dated.... And a few jazz masterpieces just aren't
my prime stylistic passion. All fantastic albums, but just not quite as
good as VU/Nico.
I'd have to go with these:

Let It Bleed (although my personal favorite Stones albums are a couple of
the much earlier ones)
Arthur (hard to single out a particular Kinks album...)
Led Zeppelin II
The Freewheelin'
Sgt. Pepper's (again, not a personal favorite)
Are You Experienced?
Tommy

in addition to your top 3.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 05:43:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
Post by poisoned rose
I don't know why you put that much emphasis on sheer sales.
I would say that sales is one of a few important factors. Given how many
*good* albums emerged from the sixties, the best criteria for greatness
require that *all* these important factors be checked off.
I guess I would argue that "selling a lot" is a description more than a
compliment.
Post by RichL
Post by poisoned rose
In any case, I'd say VU & Nico would be one of *my* favorite 10 albums
of the '60s. So why wouldn't many other people think so too?
Because you're projecting your own tastes onto the general public.
It's one of the uppermost required purchases for anyone with an
alternative-music orientation. Which is not a small population. Not as
large as Whitney Houston's army, but not small.
Post by RichL
Let It Bleed (although my personal favorite Stones albums are a couple of
the much earlier ones)
Arthur (hard to single out a particular Kinks album...)
Led Zeppelin II
The Freewheelin'
Sgt. Pepper's (again, not a personal favorite)
Are You Experienced?
Tommy
in addition to your top 3.
So you're saying these are something resembling the "objective" top 10
of the '60s, rather than your own picks? If so, I really don't agree.
Particularly not Arthur -- the seminal pick would be Village Green, if
anything. And objectively speaking, I sure wouldn't pick Freewheelin'
over Blonde and Bringing It.

I wouldn't really declare some absolute answer to this question, but I'd
probably pick some subset out of:

Sgt. Pepper
Pet Sounds
Revolver
VU & Nico
Highway 61 Revisited
Rubber Soul
Are You Experienced
Blonde on Blonde
Abbey Road
James Brown-Live at the Apollo
Astral Weeks
Dusty in Memphis
Johnny Cash at Folsom Prison
Beggars Banquet
Crosby, Stills & Nash
Tommy
The White Album
The Doors

Though, really, it would be better to substitute some anthologies 'n'
box sets. (Where's the Motown, etc.?)
RichL
2012-02-28 06:05:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by RichL
Post by poisoned rose
I don't know why you put that much emphasis on sheer sales.
I would say that sales is one of a few important factors. Given how many
*good* albums emerged from the sixties, the best criteria for greatness
require that *all* these important factors be checked off.
I guess I would argue that "selling a lot" is a description more than a
compliment.
If taken by itself, sure. But in the context of other factors being
included, it serves as a sort of quantifiable validation.
Post by poisoned rose
Post by RichL
Post by poisoned rose
In any case, I'd say VU & Nico would be one of *my* favorite 10 albums
of the '60s. So why wouldn't many other people think so too?
Because you're projecting your own tastes onto the general public.
It's one of the uppermost required purchases for anyone with an
alternative-music orientation. Which is not a small population. Not as
large as Whitney Houston's army, but not small.
But with the sales being that low, it's hard to imagine that a majority of
alt-music-oriented folks have actually bought it!
Post by poisoned rose
Post by RichL
Let It Bleed (although my personal favorite Stones albums are a couple of
the much earlier ones)
Arthur (hard to single out a particular Kinks album...)
Led Zeppelin II
The Freewheelin'
Sgt. Pepper's (again, not a personal favorite)
Are You Experienced?
Tommy
in addition to your top 3.
So you're saying these are something resembling the "objective" top 10
of the '60s, rather than your own picks? If so, I really don't agree.
No, I think it's impossible to come up with a fully objective list (which is
why generally I hate lists). But it's certainly not a list of my favorite
albums of the decade. It's somewhere in between. It seems to me that if a
list like this is labeled "greatest" as opposed to "my favorite", there has
to be some sort of objective element in it.
Post by poisoned rose
Particularly not Arthur -- the seminal pick would be Village Green, if
anything. And objectively speaking, I sure wouldn't pick Freewheelin'
over Blonde and Bringing It.
For me, Arthur vs. Village Green is a close call, and the tie-breaker is the
fact that the former has two extremely strong songs, "Victoria" and
"Shangri-La", whereas the latter, although strong overall, doesn't have any
songs that stand out to that degree.

As for Freewheelin', I chose it specifically to represent the earlier part
of the decade.
Post by poisoned rose
I wouldn't really declare some absolute answer to this question, but I'd
Sgt. Pepper
Pet Sounds
Revolver
VU & Nico
Highway 61 Revisited
Rubber Soul
Are You Experienced
Blonde on Blonde
Abbey Road
James Brown-Live at the Apollo
Astral Weeks
Dusty in Memphis
Johnny Cash at Folsom Prison
Beggars Banquet
Crosby, Stills & Nash
Tommy
The White Album
The Doors
Though, really, it would be better to substitute some anthologies 'n'
box sets. (Where's the Motown, etc.?)
I considered adding Live at the Apollo, but I wasn't sure whether to include
live albums, let alone anthologies etc. The trouble with Motown is that
it's best represented by singles. The Doors was a close call, if I listed
12 rather than 10 it probably would have made it, although if it were
strictly my personal preferences, Strange Days would have beaten it.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 08:04:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
Post by poisoned rose
I guess I would argue that "selling a lot" is a description more than a
compliment.
If taken by itself, sure. But in the context of other factors being
included, it serves as a sort of quantifiable validation.
"In-a-Gadda-da-Vida" was one of the decade's top-selling albums. ;)
Post by RichL
Post by poisoned rose
It's one of the uppermost required purchases for anyone with an
alternative-music orientation. Which is not a small population. Not as
large as Whitney Houston's army, but not small.
But with the sales being that low, it's hard to imagine that a majority of
alt-music-oriented folks have actually bought it!
We don't know just how low the sales are. There's also the factor that
the album was included in the Peel Slowly box set, which siphoned off
some sales.
gemjack
2012-02-28 12:51:54 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:45:19 -0800, poisoned rose
Post by poisoned rose
Abbey Road is too slick...The White Album is too uneven...Tommy is too
padded...Astral Weeks is too samey and not melodic enough...Beggars
Banquet and the import Aftermath are a bit too rootsy...The Village
Green Preservation Society is a bit too milquetoast...Rubber Soul has
weak tracks...PIper at the Gates of Dawn is too indulgent...Are You
Experienced? is a bit dated.... And a few jazz masterpieces just aren't
my prime stylistic passion. All fantastic albums, but just not quite as
good as VU/Nico.
Bingo!

-gj
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 03:34:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
As I said elsewhere, VU gets credit for "harbinger of things to come", I'll
give them that. But that alone is hardly qualification for meriting one of
the top ten great albums of the 60s.
PS There are plenty of "harbinger of things to come" albums that I
don't particularly like. For instance, the MC5 stuff, the New York Dolls
stuff and the first Suicide album. I'm not even a huge fan of the
Stooges' debut. I vote no on Steppenwolf and Blue Cheer. I could make
this list longer, if I worked harder on it. I haven't even touched rap
and electronic music. On the other hand, I can get something freshly
exciting out of VU & Nico, any time I play it. It's just a fantastic set
of tracks with impressively diverse approaches. I've never grown sick of
that album at all.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 04:16:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
PS There are plenty of "harbinger of things to come" albums that I
don't particularly like. For instance, the MC5 stuff, the New York Dolls
stuff and the first Suicide album. I'm not even a huge fan of the
Stooges' debut. I vote no on Steppenwolf and Blue Cheer. I could make
this list longer, if I worked harder on it.
Laura Nyro, Allman Brothers, Black Sabbath, the Bluesbreakers, Les Paul,
Elvis, virtually any old-time country name....
gemjack
2012-02-28 12:48:57 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 15:16:49 -0800, poisoned rose
Post by RichL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums
I counted 68 albums listed, and not a single VU album.
True, they don't make every list, but they did well on this one:
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/500-greatest-albums-of-all-time-19691231/the-velvet-underground-the-velvet-underground-and-nico-19691231

-gj
RichL
2012-02-28 14:05:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by gemjack
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 15:16:49 -0800, poisoned rose
Post by RichL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums
I counted 68 albums listed, and not a single VU album.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/500-greatest-albums-of-all-time-19691231/the-velvet-underground-the-velvet-underground-and-nico-19691231
Ah, but that only makes my point. The RS list is a critics' list, not a
popularity list. In fact, I can't think of another highly-rated-by-critics
musical act for which there's such a huge gap between the critics' and the
public's perception.
gemjack
2012-02-28 14:28:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
Post by gemjack
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 15:16:49 -0800, poisoned rose
Post by RichL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums
I counted 68 albums listed, and not a single VU album.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/500-greatest-albums-of-all-time-19691231/the-velvet-underground-the-velvet-underground-and-nico-19691231
Ah, but that only makes my point. The RS list is a critics' list, not a
popularity list. In fact, I can't think of another highly-rated-by-critics
musical act for which there's such a huge gap between the critics' and the
public's perception.
I guess at the end of the day, my 10 or so albums of the 60's depend
only on what I want to hear. I hate these raja-lists and am
completely uninfluenced by anyone's poll or opinion. It's a true
statement that VU is rarely mentioned in these lists, hence my
surprise at seeing someone mention it in their list. Seems to be true
that people either really like the VU, or really don't. With
exceptions of Sweet Jane and Heroin most people have never heard them.

-gj
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 21:14:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
In fact, I can't think of another highly-rated-by-critics
musical act for which there's such a huge gap between the critics' and the
public's perception.
Oh, I could. Come on! Loads of critically adored bands sell less than VU
has.

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/albums/2011/

Look at the results of this year's big Pazz & Jop poll. Scan the top 100
or so, and think about how many of those underground acts can't have
sold as many albums as VU. I myself haven't heard of a decent percentage
of them.

I suspect you're working a little too hard to feel less "guilty" about
not enjoying VU yourself.
RichL
2012-02-28 23:39:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by RichL
In fact, I can't think of another highly-rated-by-critics
musical act for which there's such a huge gap between the critics' and the
public's perception.
Oh, I could. Come on! Loads of critically adored bands sell less than VU
has.
http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/albums/2011/
Look at the results of this year's big Pazz & Jop poll. Scan the top 100
or so, and think about how many of those underground acts can't have
sold as many albums as VU. I myself haven't heard of a decent percentage
of them.
OK, I underestimated their irrelevance. It seems they went completely off
the rails this year.
Post by poisoned rose
I suspect you're working a little too hard to feel less "guilty" about
not enjoying VU yourself.
I suspect you're trying to whip up a battle, so I'll ignore that one.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 23:48:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
Post by poisoned rose
I suspect you're working a little too hard to feel less "guilty" about
not enjoying VU yourself.
I suspect you're trying to whip up a battle, so I'll ignore that one.
No...it's just the way the thread has gone. You're "too interested" in
this subject for there not be a personal-ego issue involved. I would
have guessed you would have shrugged and moved on a couple of rounds ago.

But tell me you're a big fan of the album and I'll retract my impression.
RichL
2012-02-29 00:53:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by RichL
Post by poisoned rose
I suspect you're working a little too hard to feel less "guilty" about
not enjoying VU yourself.
I suspect you're trying to whip up a battle, so I'll ignore that one.
No...it's just the way the thread has gone. You're "too interested" in
this subject for there not be a personal-ego issue involved. I would
have guessed you would have shrugged and moved on a couple of rounds ago.
But tell me you're a big fan of the album and I'll retract my impression.
No, I'm not a big fan of the album. And I think, as you indicated in a
response to either Marcus or RR (I forget which), I've explained my position
rationally. Granted, a bit of a pet peeve of mine generally is that critics
have a tendency to "rediscover" music that's relatively glossed over at the
time it was released, that hardly made a dent in public perception at the
time. I see a parallel with historical revisionism. I fully admit that
this is a personal quirk; I'm much more impressed with contemporary impact
and influence, having experienced it in real time and correlated, e.g.,
musical themes with other things that were happening then. And before you
pounce, it's not just 60s music that I view in this way, I tend to see music
leading up to the present in the same way. To me, it's part of the overall
historical context.

I think that's part of why I (relatively) downplay impact on future music
compared with other factors. It kind of goes back to that "soundtrack"
thing in another thread, where I see that aspect of music much more than you
do.
poisoned rose
2012-02-29 02:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
Granted, a bit of a pet peeve of mine generally is that critics
have a tendency to "rediscover" music that's relatively glossed over at the
time it was released, that hardly made a dent in public perception at the
time. I see a parallel with historical revisionism.
That's a strange way to look at it.

To me, "historical revisionism" would be to inflate VU's '60s-era
popularity and notoriety beyond what it actually was. But saying "This
album sold weakly back then, but it sure was great music"? No.
Post by RichL
I'm much more impressed with contemporary impact
and influence
Hrm. As you wish. I enjoy far too much weak-selling music to feel any
kinship with that sentiment. I'd guess about two-thirds of my albums
were never on the main Billboard album chart.

I don't think I'll stir up any controversy in claiming there are loads
of lousy artists who have/had contemporary impact...are you "much more
impressed" by the fleeting Right Said Fred sensation than the
rediscovery of VU?

And I really don't get the restriction to "contemporary"
influence...what, it's more of an achievement for music to be
influential when it's new than when it's years old? Because the latter
sure seems more rare and special to me, and the sign of true value.
RichL
2012-02-29 03:21:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by RichL
Granted, a bit of a pet peeve of mine generally is that critics
have a tendency to "rediscover" music that's relatively glossed over at the
time it was released, that hardly made a dent in public perception at the
time. I see a parallel with historical revisionism.
That's a strange way to look at it.
To me, "historical revisionism" would be to inflate VU's '60s-era
popularity and notoriety beyond what it actually was. But saying "This
album sold weakly back then, but it sure was great music"? No.
Think of it this way. When I think of an album as a "great album of the
60s", to me it has to be literally "of the 60s", part of that decade's
overall vibe. I think I'm more adamant about this in the context of
choosing great albums associated with a particular decade than I would be,
say, in discussing greatest albums of all time, where there isn't a direct
connection with a particular era.
Post by poisoned rose
Post by RichL
I'm much more impressed with contemporary impact
and influence
Hrm. As you wish. I enjoy far too much weak-selling music to feel any
kinship with that sentiment. I'd guess about two-thirds of my albums
were never on the main Billboard album chart.
Well, as I said, sales is only part of the picture. Of today's music, I
certainly don't gravitate toward the most popular.
Post by poisoned rose
I don't think I'll stir up any controversy in claiming there are loads
of lousy artists who have/had contemporary impact...are you "much more
impressed" by the fleeting Right Said Fred sensation than the
rediscovery of VU?
Again, sales is only part of the picture. As we're discussing elsewhere,
there has to be some songwriting quality, which granted is subjective.
Post by poisoned rose
And I really don't get the restriction to "contemporary"
influence...what, it's more of an achievement for music to be
influential when it's new than when it's years old? Because the latter
sure seems more rare and special to me, and the sign of true value.
I think you have to consider both, especially (not to be overly repetitive)
when the discussion revolves around music of a particular era.
poisoned rose
2012-02-29 05:04:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
Think of it this way. When I think of an album as a "great album of the
60s", to me it has to be literally "of the 60s", part of that decade's
overall vibe.
Well, the Warhol camp contributed to the decade's "overall vibe," no?

Eh, whatever. I'm going out now.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 22:10:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by gemjack
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/500-greatest-albums-of-all-time-196912
31/the-velvet-underground-the-velvet-underground-and-nico-19691231
That's the same list I cited yesterday. Where VU & Nico was ranked #13
of all time. I didn't have the page bookmarked online, but I have a text
file saved of the complete 500.

The non-'60s albums ranked higher are What's Going On, London Calling,
Exile on Main Street, Kind of Blue and The Sun Sessions. Thus, Rolling
Stone believes (or at least believed at the time of this article) that
VU & Nico was the eighth greatest album of the '60s. So, anyone who
pumps up his ego by grandly declaring VU & Nico can't possibly be one of
the decade's best 10 albums is flying in the face of the publication
that most defines the classic-rock lexicon. Now, it's fine to be
*skeptical* about the album's stature like RichL is, but the newsgroup
troll's hyperbolic trashings carry no credibility at all.
gemjack
2012-02-29 13:11:54 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 14:10:53 -0800, poisoned rose
Post by poisoned rose
Post by gemjack
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/500-greatest-albums-of-all-time-196912
31/the-velvet-underground-the-velvet-underground-and-nico-19691231
That's the same list I cited yesterday. Where VU & Nico was ranked #13
of all time. I didn't have the page bookmarked online, but I have a text
file saved of the complete 500.
The non-'60s albums ranked higher are What's Going On, London Calling,
Exile on Main Street, Kind of Blue and The Sun Sessions. Thus, Rolling
Stone believes (or at least believed at the time of this article) that
VU & Nico was the eighth greatest album of the '60s. So, anyone who
pumps up his ego by grandly declaring VU & Nico can't possibly be one of
the decade's best 10 albums is flying in the face of the publication
that most defines the classic-rock lexicon. Now, it's fine to be
*skeptical* about the album's stature like RichL is, but the newsgroup
troll's hyperbolic trashings carry no credibility at all.
I didn't realize this was so complicated. Differentiating between
60's or 'sixties', album sales, and critical reception simply doesn't
factor in my appreciation or enjoyment of VU or any other band. I am
a bit surprised, I've always thought of the VU at least as relevant
as the Doors, and I tend to admire their not-so-hippy yet still
anti-establishment, apocalyptic style. They didn't even fit in with
the bands that were trying to not fit in.

From their wiki:
Although experiencing little commercial success while together, the
band is often cited by many critics as one of the most important and
influential groups of the 1960s.[1] An often-repeated statement,
usually attributed to Brian Eno or Peter Buck, is that "The first
Velvet Underground album only sold 10,000 copies, but everyone who
bought it formed a band."

-gj
crazytimes
2012-02-29 16:14:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by gemjack
On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 14:10:53 -0800, poisoned rose
Post by poisoned rose
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/500-greatest-albums-of-all-ti...
31/the-velvet-underground-the-velvet-underground-and-nico-19691231
That's the same list I cited yesterday. Where VU & Nico was ranked #13
of all time. I didn't have the page bookmarked online, but I have a text
file saved of the complete 500.
The non-'60s albums ranked higher are What's Going On, London Calling,
Exile on Main Street, Kind of Blue and The Sun Sessions. Thus, Rolling
Stone believes (or at least believed at the time of this article) that
VU & Nico was the eighth greatest album of the '60s. So, anyone who
pumps up his ego by grandly declaring VU & Nico can't possibly be one of
the decade's best 10 albums is flying in the face of the publication
that most defines the classic-rock lexicon. Now, it's fine to be
*skeptical* about the album's stature like RichL is, but the newsgroup
troll's hyperbolic trashings carry no credibility at all.
I didn't realize this was so complicated.  Differentiating between
60's or 'sixties', album sales, and critical reception simply doesn't
factor in my appreciation or enjoyment of VU or any other band.  I am
a bit surprised, I've always  thought of the VU at least as relevant
as the Doors, and I tend to admire their not-so-hippy yet still
anti-establishment, apocalyptic style.  They didn't even fit in with
the bands that were trying to not fit in.
The VU's first was recorded in 1966 but not released until March '67,
at which time it was recalled for some months to fix a back-cover
issue (someone whose face was on the back cover wanted to be paid)...
DJ's probably didn't like the sound of the album (should have let Nico
sing 'Sunday Morning' and tried to worm their way onto the airwaves in
a Jackie DeShannon/Marianne Faithful vein), and Verve reportedly threw
their promotional weight behind Zappa and the Mothers, as far as the
freak wagon went... How available was the record in stores nationwide
and for how long during its initial release?... Dunno... As we are
them that didn't live through it, we can only look back at their
context in historical terms and rely on witness testimonials, however
far-ranging and disparate they may be... As far as people like or not
liking the VU & Nico album, I can see both sides and not find it odd
that someone doesn't think it's that great...

I used to tend to regard 60s music in terms of relating it to a
recording's release or recording date, without taking into account
that, for instance, though I consider Rubber Soul to be a 1965
happening, it was probably experienced as something culturally 'new'
as a 1966 event by those that were around at the time...
Post by gemjack
Although experiencing little commercial success while together, the
band is often cited by many critics as one of the most important and
influential groups of the 1960s.[1] An often-repeated statement,
usually attributed to Brian Eno or Peter Buck, is that "The first
Velvet Underground album only sold 10,000 copies, but everyone who
bought it formed a band."
-gj
marcus
2012-02-27 17:52:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by pest films
With the Beatles/Meet the Beatles
Help!
Blonde on Blonde
Highway 61 Revisited
Aftermath
My Generation
Who Sell Out
Velvet Underground and Nico
Pet Sounds
Ummagumma
Sgt.Pepper
Disreali Gears
Electric Ladyland
Led Zeppelin
The Doors
Revolver
Rubber Soul
Cosmo's Factory
Strange Days
Axis: Bold As Love
The Loan Arranger
2012-02-27 19:51:11 UTC
Permalink
You guys must have not lived during the 60s if you omitted:
12 Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus by Spirit
It's A Beautiful Day - It's A Beautiful Day
Forever Changes - Love
marcus
2012-02-28 04:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Loan Arranger
12 Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus by Spirit
It's A Beautiful Day - It's A Beautiful Day
Forever Changes - Love
All three are great, particularly the one by Spirit...which
technically came out after the 1960s, but during the Sixties era.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 05:18:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by marcus
particularly the one by Spirit...which
technically came out after the 1960s, but during the Sixties era.
As ever, a VITAL distinction to make. It's always so, so important to
maintain that theoretical "Sixties era" mythology. Otherwise, you'd have
to surrender Dr. Sardonicus to the *1970s*. Oh noooooooo! You'd be
ceding a point to an enemy decade!

Personally, I like Forever Changes a lot, find Dr. Sardonicus worth
owning but no better than "OK" (I'm not too keen on Spirit in general)
and think the It's a Beautiful Day album is a dated cringe. And I don't
feel like I'm swimming against the tide, at least in the case of IABD --
I don't perceive much general respect for that group anymore. Another
act who didn't survive the passage of time.

The above paragraph contains no charge that you must be "stupid" to like
the Spirit and IABD albums more than me, but of course I'll expect
condescending insults in reply.
marcus
2012-02-28 15:05:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by marcus
particularly the one by Spirit...which
technically came out after the 1960s, but during the Sixties era.
As ever, a VITAL distinction to make. It's always so, so important to
maintain that theoretical "Sixties era" mythology. Otherwise, you'd have
to surrender Dr. Sardonicus to the *1970s*. Oh noooooooo! You'd be
ceding a point to an enemy decade!
There is a difference between 1960s and Sixties.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 21:32:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by marcus
There is a difference between 1960s and Sixties.
You believe there is one but, because you exist bundled up in your own
private mythology, you fail to acknowledge that the vast majority of
people make no such distinction.
gemjack
2012-02-28 12:55:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by marcus
Post by The Loan Arranger
12 Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus by Spirit
It's A Beautiful Day - It's A Beautiful Day
Forever Changes - Love
All three are great, particularly the one by Spirit...which
technically came out after the 1960s, but during the Sixties era.
Spirit. Didn't they have that song 'Taurus'? The song that gave Mr.
Page an idea or two when they opened up for Led Zeppelin (or perhaps
the Yardbirds)?

-gj
really real
2012-02-28 16:05:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Loan Arranger
12 Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus by Spirit
It's A Beautiful Day - It's A Beautiful Day
Forever Changes - Love
Is Forever Changes really better than the first side of Da Capo?

And is It's a Beautiful Day really any good?

I've never been able to crack Spirit.


However, the best album of the 60s is probably East West by the Paul
Butterfield Blues Band
The Loan Arranger
2012-02-28 17:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
Post by The Loan Arranger
12 Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus by Spirit
It's A Beautiful Day - It's A Beautiful Day
Forever Changes - Love
Is Forever Changes really better than the first side of Da Capo?
I like Da Capo too but feel FC is better overall.
Post by really real
And is It's a Beautiful Day really any good?
It's one of my 10 favorite albums of all time.
Post by really real
I've never been able to crack Spirit.
Dr. Sardonicus was their magnum opus but I like their other work also.

Also I forgot to mention Santana's first album "Santana", The Doors first album
"The Doors" and Jefferson Airplane's "After Bathing At Baxter's"
really real
2012-02-29 00:10:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Loan Arranger
Post by really real
And is It's a Beautiful Day really any good?
It's one of my 10 favorite albums of all time.
I liked it at the time, because it's long violin passages were sure
better than the usual long guitar solo crap, even those in sacred albums
like The Velvet Underground's first. And don't get me started about drum
solos.

But I'm not sure that It's a Beautiful Day has aged well, know that we
know so much more about jazz.

I once played it for a younger friend who thought it was terrible.

And do we even talk about The Flock?
The Loan Arranger
2012-02-29 01:05:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Loan Arranger
Post by really real
And is It's a Beautiful Day really any good?
It's one of my 10 favorite albums of all time.
I liked it at the time, because it's long violin passages were sure better
than the usual long guitar solo crap, even those in sacred albums like The
Velvet Underground's first. And don't get me started about drum solos.
Velvet Underground with Nico album is hugely over-rated and IMO is total crap.
But I'm not sure that It's a Beautiful Day has aged well, know that we know so
much more about jazz.
I still listen to it frequently and enjoy it more than ever.
I once played it for a younger friend who thought it was terrible.
No accounting for taste, I suppose.
really real
2012-02-29 02:23:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Loan Arranger
Velvet Underground with Nico album is hugely over-rated and IMO is total crap.
Well, yes, it is crap but it takes crap to an artistic level.

I gave up on the album twice in the 60s. At first I thought it was a
really bad Dylan imitator. Then I bought it again because of the banana
on the cover, and realized I had bought the same dumb album twice.

It took 15 years for me to buy it for the third time. Now I have all the
Velvet Underground releases.
Post by The Loan Arranger
But I'm not sure that It's a Beautiful Day has aged well, know that we know so
much more about jazz.
I still listen to it frequently and enjoy it more than ever.
Okay, I just played the Flock. I had forgotten they did Tired of
Waiting. This band is what happens when you apply the electric violin to
heavier jazz. It's actually pretty good in places
The Loan Arranger
2012-02-29 12:55:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Loan Arranger
But I'm not sure that It's a Beautiful Day has aged well, know that we know so
much more about jazz.
I still listen to it frequently and enjoy it more than ever.
Okay, I just played the Flock. I had forgotten they did Tired of Waiting. This
band is what happens when you apply the electric violin to heavier jazz. It's
actually pretty good in places
I've seen David LaFlamme in concert (albeit a long time ago) and he was
excellent.
For jazz violin I really like the collaborations of Stephan Grappelli and Django
Reinhardt.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 21:42:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
Is Forever Changes really better than the first side of Da Capo?
That's not a fair question. The reason Da Capo doesn't have Forever
Changes' acclaim is because of side two. You don't get to eliminate half
the album from the equation.
really real
2012-02-28 23:41:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by really real
Is Forever Changes really better than the first side of Da Capo?
That's not a fair question. The reason Da Capo doesn't have Forever
Changes' acclaim is because of side two. You don't get to eliminate half
the album from the equation.
Is the first side of Forever Changes really as good as the first side of
Da Capo?

Is the second side of Forever Changes really as good as the first side
of Da Capo?
Janice
2012-02-28 19:53:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Loan Arranger
12 Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus by Spirit
It's A Beautiful Day - It's A Beautiful Day
Forever Changes - Love
Even in the 60's, we knew It's A Beautiful Day would be on future best
album lists.


~`~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Loan Arranger
2012-02-28 21:31:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Loan Arranger
12 Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus by Spirit
It's A Beautiful Day - It's A Beautiful Day
Forever Changes - Love
Even in the 60's, we knew It's A Beautiful Day would be on future best
album lists.

================================================
Indeed we did.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 21:42:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janice
Even in the 60's, we knew It's A Beautiful Day would be on future best
album lists.
Show me just one, from a non-amateur source.
really real
2012-02-27 20:18:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by marcus
Sgt.Pepper
Disreali Gears
Electric Ladyland
Led Zeppelin
The Doors
Revolver
Rubber Soul
Cosmo's Factory
Strange Days
Axis: Bold As Love
That list definitely hits ten high points, but did you forget which
newsgroup this is? You've left out two of the best 60s albums, which
were done by our greatest living musical artist.
Bill Anderson
2012-02-27 20:28:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
Post by marcus
Sgt.Pepper
Disreali Gears
Electric Ladyland
Led Zeppelin
The Doors
Revolver
Rubber Soul
Cosmo's Factory
Strange Days
Axis: Bold As Love
That list definitely hits ten high points, but did you forget which
newsgroup this is? You've left out two of the best 60s albums, which
were done by our greatest living musical artist.
John Wesley Harding and Nashville Skyline.
--
Bill Anderson

I am the Mighty Favog
Howard Brazee
2012-02-28 02:05:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
That list definitely hits ten high points, but did you forget which
newsgroup this is? You've left out two of the best 60s albums, which
were done by our greatest living musical artist.
When a post is cross-posted, replies can be from either side.

So from a past-films prospective, we should be considering, maybe the
sound track of _2001, A Space Odyssey_.

Now, trying to fit both newsgroups - which Dylan songs have worked the
best in movies?
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison
Bill Anderson
2012-02-28 02:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Howard Brazee
Post by really real
That list definitely hits ten high points, but did you forget which
newsgroup this is? You've left out two of the best 60s albums, which
were done by our greatest living musical artist.
When a post is cross-posted, replies can be from either side.
So from a past-films prospective, we should be considering, maybe the
sound track of _2001, A Space Odyssey_.
Now, trying to fit both newsgroups - which Dylan songs have worked the
best in movies?
"Knockin' on Heaven's Door" in PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID, followed
by every other tune in the movie. It's a brilliant soundtrack.
--
Bill Anderson

I am the Mighty Favog
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 02:53:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Anderson
"Knockin' on Heaven's Door" in PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID, followed
by every other tune in the movie. It's a brilliant soundtrack.
"The Man in Me" in The Big Lebowski comes to mind. And there was "Things
Have Changed," though that song doesn't really knock me out.

I'll never understand why "This Wheel's on Fire" was chosen for
Absolutely Fabulous.
gemjack
2012-02-28 13:03:44 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:53:45 -0800, poisoned rose
Post by poisoned rose
Post by Bill Anderson
"Knockin' on Heaven's Door" in PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID, followed
by every other tune in the movie. It's a brilliant soundtrack.
I wish I could cross-post, my server won't allow it. It's such a
great way to reach out and intermingle with other species you'd
otherwise never meet.
Post by poisoned rose
"The Man in Me" in The Big Lebowski comes to mind.
My favorite version of that song.
Post by poisoned rose
And there was "Things
Have Changed," though that song doesn't really knock me out.
I'll never understand why "This Wheel's on Fire" was chosen for
Absolutely Fabulous.
My wife was a huge fan of that show, she MADE me sit down and watch a
few stupid episodes. I couldn't believe it when I heard the theme
song. Yeah, strange choice, but it DID get me to sit for a few
minutes more. In our home these days, Saunders is more known as the
voice of the fairy godmother in Shrek II.

-gj
really real
2012-02-28 15:18:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by gemjack
Post by poisoned rose
"The Man in Me" in The Big Lebowski comes to mind.
My favorite version of that song.
Can you explain which version this is? When I saw the movie, I thought
it was a different version than on the album. But I bought the
soundtrack album and it sounds the same to me. Am I not paying close
enough attention?
gemjack
2012-02-28 15:50:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
Post by gemjack
Post by poisoned rose
"The Man in Me" in The Big Lebowski comes to mind.
My favorite version of that song.
Can you explain which version this is? When I saw the movie, I thought
it was a different version than on the album. But I bought the
soundtrack album and it sounds the same to me. Am I not paying close
enough attention?
If memory serves it's in the opening credits. Starts off with an
*almost* off-key Bob doing a lot of la-la-la's. Pretty bouncy, has
that late 70's rough but not gravelly voice going, it may be possible
to dance to it. IOW, this:


Ok, ok, just checked. Seems it IS the same thing, or pretty darn
close. I think I was thinking of the Rundown Rehearsal version as the
one I don't prefer. My bad. For some reason I didn't recall the
original lp version being as festive, but I guess it is if my mp3
collection is accurate. Seems you're paying closer attention than I
am.

-gj
really real
2012-02-28 15:59:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by gemjack
Ok, ok, just checked. Seems it IS the same thing, or pretty darn
close. I think I was thinking of the Rundown Rehearsal version as the
one I don't prefer. My bad. For some reason I didn't recall the
original lp version being as festive, but I guess it is if my mp3
collection is accurate. Seems you're paying closer attention than I
am.
No, I made a fool of myself once telling people it was a concert version.

There is something about hearing the song with the visuals, or perhaps,
hearing it remastered like that, that makes it seem a different version.
Janice
2012-02-28 20:24:17 UTC
Permalink
On Feb 27, 6:32 pm, Bill Anderson <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
.
.
Post by Bill Anderson
Post by Howard Brazee
Now, trying to fit both newsgroups - which Dylan songs have worked the
best in movies?
.
Post by Bill Anderson
"Knockin' on Heaven's Door" in PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID, followed
by every other tune in the movie.  It's a brilliant soundtrack.
Dylan's soundtrack for My Own Love Song -- both the soundtrack and the
movie were excellent. Apparently there is no soundtrack CD or Mp3
offering... how can this be? And few scenes on YouTube. What a loss,
the scene with Georges Drakoulias singing What Good Am I is one of my
all-time favorites.


~`~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This space reserved for My Own Love Song soundtrack
really real
2012-02-28 02:49:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Howard Brazee
When a post is cross-posted, replies can be from either side.
So from a past-films prospective, we should be considering, maybe the
sound track of _2001, A Space Odyssey_.
Now, trying to fit both newsgroups - which Dylan songs have worked the
best in movies?
That's a good question. Dylan did not allow his songs to be used in
movies for the first decades of his career. Now I hear his songs in
movies all the time.

Was Wigwam used in The Royal Tennenbaums? That was pretty interesting.
marcus
2012-02-28 03:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
Post by marcus
Sgt.Pepper
Disreali Gears
Electric Ladyland
Led Zeppelin
The Doors
Revolver
Rubber Soul
Cosmo's Factory
Strange Days
Axis: Bold As Love
That list definitely hits ten high points, but did you forget which
newsgroup this is? You've left out two of the best 60s albums, which
were done by our greatest living musical artist.
Well, I was just naming ten. Trouble with Dylan for me is that I like
a few songs eachfrom "Another Side","Bringing It All Back Home", and
"Highway 61 Revisited", but not any of those three enough to say I
think the entire album is great.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 04:08:46 UTC
Permalink
There are a whole lot of '60s albums I'd take over Disraeli Gears. I
just don't think it has aged very well. My copy is a crummy homemade
tape that I made back in the '80s, and I've never bothered to "upgrade"
it.
marcus
2012-02-28 04:12:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
There are a whole lot of '60s albums I'd take over Disraeli Gears. I
just don't think it has aged very well. My copy is a crummy homemade
tape that I made back in the '80s, and I've never bothered to "upgrade"
it.
Well, there's your problem right there...among many.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 04:51:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by marcus
Post by poisoned rose
There are a whole lot of '60s albums I'd take over Disraeli Gears. I
just don't think it has aged very well. My copy is a crummy homemade
tape that I made back in the '80s, and I've never bothered to "upgrade"
it.
Well, there's your problem right there...among many.
Wow. Just look at you. Just look at how you shoot yourself in the foot,
over and over again.

Yet again, we see the difference:

PR gives a reasoned, music-based opinion that insults no one else and is
very much presented in subjective "This is my own view" language.

Childish, pathologically self-righteous Marcus offers no music-based
defense in reply, and instead responds with character insult and a
pompous indication that someone who disagrees with his musical taste
must have a "problem."

No one could deny this contrast. So, as usual, the only thing to do is
clip it all out and pretend it never happened.

How can you NOT be ashamed of yourself, pretending you carry a torch for
righteous "good behavior"?

What an embarrassment you are to your "generation."
marcus
2012-02-28 15:03:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by marcus
Post by poisoned rose
There are a whole lot of '60s albums I'd take over Disraeli Gears. I
just don't think it has aged very well. My copy is a crummy homemade
tape that I made back in the '80s, and I've never bothered to "upgrade"
it.
Well, there's your problem right there...among many.
Wow. Just look at you. Just look at how you shoot yourself in the foot,
over and over again.
For someone who prides himself on reading comprehension, you are often
slow-witted. My "well, there's the problem" was referring to you, Mr.
Music, relying on what you admittedly state is a highly inferior copy
of the album in question, but have never in the 30 years since
bothered to obtain a moer pristine copy to base your opinion upon.
There's your problem.
Post by poisoned rose
PR gives a reasoned, music-based opinion that insults no one else and is
very much presented in subjective "This is my own view" language.
Childish, pathologically self-righteous Marcus offers no music-based
defense in reply, and instead responds with character insult and a
pompous indication that someone who disagrees with his musical taste
must have a "problem."
No one could deny this contrast. So, as usual, the only thing to do is
clip it all out and pretend it never happened.
How can you NOT be ashamed of yourself, pretending you carry a torch for
righteous "good behavior"?
What an embarrassment you are to your "generation."
By stating that you think I am an embarrassment to my generation you
show yourself to buy into generational differences, which you always
state there are none.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 22:22:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by marcus
Post by poisoned rose
Wow. Just look at you. Just look at how you shoot yourself in the foot,
over and over again.
For someone who prides himself on reading comprehension, you are often
slow-witted. My "well, there's the problem" was referring to you, Mr.
Music, relying on what you admittedly state is a highly inferior copy
of the album in question, but have never in the 30 years since
bothered to obtain a moer pristine copy to base your opinion upon.
There's your problem.
OK, that was not clear at all. Since I debate fairly (unlike you), I
acknowledge your point and retract my above comment. But simply having a
better-quality copy will not make me like the album more. It's not as if
I feel iffy about Disraeli Gears because I think it's "poorly mixed" or
"underproduced." And it's not like I haven't heard the tracks other
times on radio, on TV, at parties, etc.

I never would have guessed you would believe tape fidelity would make
such a crucial difference. Should I also prepare a disclaimer about
various '60s albums that I've heard on scratchy, secondhand vinyl and
didn't like so much?

I think most of the Disraeli songs aren't particularly strong ("Blue
Condition" and "Mother's Lament" pretty much SUCK), and *most* bands who
played in that druggy "psychedelic blues" style did not age so well. How
many people are still hot for Ten Years After, the Blues Project, Canned
Heat, etc. versus in the past?

How good is Disraeli Gears, once you take out "Strange Brew," "Sunshine
of Your Love" and "Tales of Brave Ulysses"? Which of the other tracks
have endured in the culture, been repeatedly covered, etc.? How well do
lines such as "You've got that rainbow feel, but the rainbow has a
beard" hold up today?

I don't dislike the album. It's just not a big favorite of mine. See if
you can successfully deal with this, without scuttling back to your
pathological "They just don't get it like WE do" ageism.
Post by marcus
By stating that you think I am an embarrassment to my generation you
show yourself to buy into generational differences, which you always
state there are none.
You need to give serious thought to just how pathologically obsessed you
are with this issue. It's at the stage where counseling is called for.
RichL
2012-02-29 00:05:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
How good is Disraeli Gears, once you take out "Strange Brew," "Sunshine
of Your Love" and "Tales of Brave Ulysses"? Which of the other tracks
have endured in the culture, been repeatedly covered, etc.? How well do
lines such as "You've got that rainbow feel, but the rainbow has a
beard" hold up today?
My thoughts:

I think all of side one, with the exception of Blue Condition, is pretty
strong. I fault "Dance The Night Away" because it sort of meanders as it
progresses, but it starts out pretty strongly.

On side 2, Strange Brew and Swlabr hold up pretty well, I think. We're
Going Wrong just meanders, period, with no focus at all. Outside Woman
Blues is a competently executed electric blues with nothing really standing
out except for Baker's drumming, for those who are into that sort of thing.
After that tune, I'm done listening.

Overall I agree with your assessment, although I come at it from a different
angle. I'm not too concerned with how well it "holds up today" (whatever
that means) or how many covers there have been of the songs, but rather
whether they are good songs to begin with (an admittedly subjective
assessment).

For me, some of the album's attraction lies in the context in which it was
released. That's true for me with a lot of material from those times,
although looking at, for instance, Surrealistic Pillow from the same
song-by-song perspective as above, it doesn't fare much better although I
understand the critics like that one a lot more.
poisoned rose
2012-02-29 00:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
I think all of side one, with the exception of Blue Condition, is pretty
strong. I fault "Dance The Night Away" because it sort of meanders as it
progresses, but it starts out pretty strongly.
On side 2, Strange Brew and Swlabr hold up pretty well, I think.
Hold on..."Strange Brew" is on side one. Wha? If you meant to say "Brave
Ulysses" instead, that was always my favorite track so I have no
argument there.
Post by RichL
Going Wrong just meanders, period, with no focus at all.
Laborious, and hard to sit through.
Post by RichL
Outside Woman
Blues is a competently executed electric blues with nothing really standing
out except for Baker's drumming, for those who are into that sort of thing.
Agreed.
Post by RichL
Overall I agree with your assessment, although I come at it from a different
angle. I'm not too concerned with how well it "holds up today" (whatever
that means) or how many covers there have been of the songs, but rather
whether they are good songs to begin with (an admittedly subjective
assessment).
Well, in the same post, I said "most of the Disraeli songs aren't
particularly strong." See, this is what happens my posts get edited too
much. ;)
Post by RichL
Surrealistic Pillow from the same
song-by-song perspective as above, it doesn't fare much better although I
understand the critics like that one a lot more.
Oh, I think that one fares quite well, song by song. My least favorite
track is probably "My Best Friend," but it's not as if I *dislike* it.
And I don't consider "Embryonic Journey" to be mere filler, though some
would disagree.
really real
2012-02-29 00:41:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Oh, I think that one fares quite well, song by song. My least favorite
track is probably "My Best Friend," but it's not as if I *dislike* it.
If you don't love My Best Friend, then you are no friend of mine
poisoned rose
2012-02-29 00:48:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
Post by poisoned rose
Oh, I think that one fares quite well, song by song. My least favorite
track is probably "My Best Friend," but it's not as if I *dislike* it.
If you don't love My Best Friend, then you are no friend of mine
Maybe the most upsetting thing I could do to you is start just agreeing
with everything you post. Your desperation for petty conflict is really
becoming too easy to exploit.
really real
2012-02-29 00:52:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Maybe the most upsetting thing I could do to you is start just agreeing
with everything you post. Your desperation for petty conflict is really
becoming too easy to exploit.
I kind of agree with what you said about The Artist in the movie newsgroup.
RichL
2012-02-29 00:57:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by RichL
I think all of side one, with the exception of Blue Condition, is pretty
strong. I fault "Dance The Night Away" because it sort of meanders as it
progresses, but it starts out pretty strongly.
On side 2, Strange Brew and Swlabr hold up pretty well, I think.
Hold on..."Strange Brew" is on side one. Wha? If you meant to say "Brave
Ulysses" instead, that was always my favorite track so I have no
argument there.
Yup, brain fart. It's been a while since I listened to the album!
RichL
2012-02-29 01:17:11 UTC
Permalink
<replying separately, different subject>
Post by poisoned rose
Post by RichL
Surrealistic Pillow from the same
song-by-song perspective as above, it doesn't fare much better although I
understand the critics like that one a lot more.
Oh, I think that one fares quite well, song by song. My least favorite
track is probably "My Best Friend," but it's not as if I *dislike* it.
And I don't consider "Embryonic Journey" to be mere filler, though some
would disagree.
OK, it's been a while since I've heard the album (I've only got the vinyl,
and a dead turntable...) -- so off to Wiki to remind myself of the track
listing.

"She Has Funny Cars" -- nice riff at the beginning and at various points
throughout the song, but I dislike the transition from E major to B minor.
It sounds forced, and at times when Slick comes in between Balin's vocals, I
find it kind of irritating.

"Somebody To Love" and "My Best Friend" -- perfectly good pop songs. B+.

"Today" -- I have mixed feelings about this one. Sometimes I like listening
to it, sometimes it comes across as overly melodramatic. A combination of
presentation and cloying lyrics.

"Comin' Back To Me" -- Awful, unfocused, stereotypical hippie music.

"3/5 of a Mile" -- Not bad, but that G-F chord sequence following something
that starts off sounding like a blues pattern throws me, and not for the
better.

d.c.b.a. -- Good song, Kantner should have written more (without Balin).
Except for Slick stepping on the lyrics, that is :-)

"How Do You Feel" -- awful, in my estimation. Spacey, reverb-drenched.

"Embryonic Journey" -- Very nice instrumental, showcasing Kaukonen's skills
not displayed elsewhere, but it feels totally out of place on the album.

"White Rabbit" -- the one true gem on the album, a killer song, crescendo
building throughout.

I'm not sure I could quantify all this and rank it vis-a-vis Disraeli Gears,
but to me it's the same sort of mixed bag.
poisoned rose
2012-02-29 01:25:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
"Comin' Back To Me" -- Awful, unfocused, stereotypical hippie music.
Wow, big disagreement on that one.
Post by RichL
"How Do You Feel" -- awful, in my estimation. Spacey, reverb-drenched.
My second least-favorite.
gemjack
2012-02-29 13:15:30 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:14:27 -0800, poisoned rose
Post by poisoned rose
Hold on..."Strange Brew" is on side one. Wha? If you meant to say "Brave
Ulysses" instead, that was always my favorite track so I have no
argument there.
A good song, but I've always felt it borrowed a bit too much from
White Room, or vice versa. Better lyrics though.

-gj
crazytimes
2012-02-29 15:50:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by gemjack
On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:14:27 -0800, poisoned rose
Post by poisoned rose
Hold on..."Strange Brew" is on side one. Wha? If you meant to say "Brave
Ulysses" instead, that was always my favorite track so I have no
argument there.
A good song, but I've always felt it borrowed a bit too much from
White Room, or vice versa.  Better lyrics though.
-gj
WR came after, but they're basically the same song... I always liked
Tales the best, tho... That was a groundbreaking song and sound (wah-
ing)... It was a song Clap wrote with a lyricist and that Jack Bruce
sang and wrote the top vocal melody line to (but didn't get
credit)... Clapton had just scored the wah pedal at Manny's music
shop in NYC just before laying the tracks down... (I just got done
reading a book on Disraeli Gears)... Ahmet Ertegun, head of Atlantic,
had signed Cream on the basis of making Clapton the star and having
him sing and play basic electric Blues; they recorded DG in May of '67
NYC with that intention... At the session, Bruce's tunes (like
'Sunshine Of') were afterthoughts and only allowed to be recorded when
they ran out of other Blues material to explore... After that, Cream
toured the US that Summer before DG came out and developed the soloing/
jam excursion ethos that they would later regret... So by the time
the DG collection of songs came out in late Fall of 1967, they sort of
disavowed it as being not where they were at any longer...
really real
2012-02-28 15:17:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
PR gives a reasoned, music-based opinion that insults no one else and is
very much presented in subjective "This is my own view" language.
No you didn't, you pompous idiot.

You said that Disraeli Gears hadn't aged well and then you gave us your
fascinating personal story of your own cruddy copy of the album. All
this while talking about yourself in the third person.

You attack others for making statements of opinion without backing them
up, Where did you tell us why Disraeli Gears did not age well. Did the
cover fade? Were the references in the songs made obsolete by the
passing decades?

What if someone had said that the Velvet Undergrounds first album had
not aged well. You would be filling the page with your underwear insults
and other hyperbolic flames that even your mother wouldn't want to read,
let alone all the newsgroup readers who are no longer amused by your
immature idiocy.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 21:40:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
Post by poisoned rose
PR gives a reasoned, music-based opinion that insults no one else and is
very much presented in subjective "This is my own view" language.
No you didn't, you pompous idiot.
You said that Disraeli Gears hadn't aged well and then you gave us your
fascinating personal story of your own cruddy copy of the album. All
this while talking about yourself in the third person.
I very much did, Underpants Troll.
Post by really real
Post by poisoned rose
There are a whole lot of '60s albums I'd take over Disraeli Gears. I
just don't think it has aged very well. My copy is a crummy homemade
tape that I made back in the '80s, and I've never bothered to "upgrade"
it.
That is ENTIRELY written in a subjective, first-person tense.

Now, if I were the Underpants Troll, I instead would have spewed
something like:

"Of course there are lots of '60s albums better than Disraeli Gears. It
has aged terribly, and is barely even listenable now. And only stupid
people still like it. I don't really have an opinion this extreme, but
I'm exaggerating it in the hopes of offending someone."
Post by really real
You attack others for making statements of opinion without backing them
up, Where did you tell us why Disraeli Gears did not age well.
Saying WHY I have an opinion is obviously not the same issue, Underpants
Troll. I could elaborate, but it's not possible to have a constructive
discussion with you, so why bother? You just edit out content, so you
can hypocritically whine some more about being insulted.
Post by really real
What if someone had said that the Velvet Undergrounds first album had
not aged well. You would be filling the page with your underwear insults
No, Underpants Troll, I would be citing all the voluminous evidence that
demonstrates the album is still very highly regarded and relevant.
really real
2012-02-28 23:38:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by really real
You said that Disraeli Gears hadn't aged well and then you gave us your
fascinating personal story of your own cruddy copy of the album. All
this while talking about yourself in the third person.
I very much did, Underpants Troll.
Post by really real
Post by poisoned rose
There are a whole lot of '60s albums I'd take over Disraeli Gears. I
just don't think it has aged very well. My copy is a crummy homemade
tape that I made back in the '80s, and I've never bothered to "upgrade"
it.
Please stop calling me names.

Is there nothing you can say about the music that has aged? Surely we
shouldn't just express an opinion without backing it up.
poisoned rose
2012-02-28 23:48:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
Post by poisoned rose
Post by really real
You said that Disraeli Gears hadn't aged well and then you gave us your
fascinating personal story of your own cruddy copy of the album. All
this while talking about yourself in the third person.
I very much did, Underpants Troll.
Post by really real
Post by poisoned rose
There are a whole lot of '60s albums I'd take over Disraeli Gears. I
just don't think it has aged very well. My copy is a crummy homemade
tape that I made back in the '80s, and I've never bothered to "upgrade"
it.
Please stop calling me names.
Is there nothing you can say about the music that has aged? Surely we
shouldn't just express an opinion without backing it up.
Already said something about that to Marcus (which you naturally
"missed"), but why pretend you're interested in the subject beyond its
use as a trolling platform?

Now, why don't you defend the album with your usual set of "This song is
[generic adjective of praise]" sentences?
really real
2012-02-29 00:05:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by really real
Is there nothing you can say about the music that has aged? Surely we
shouldn't just express an opinion without backing it up.
Already said something about that to Marcus (which you naturally
"missed"), but why pretend you're interested in the subject beyond its
use as a trolling platform?
I'm a fan of Disraeli Gears. I always like it when when of those early
Cream songs comes on. I don't find it any more dated, lyrically, than
those two Donovan albums, which I guess are dated but I don't mind them
at all.

There's something anthemly heroic about the Disraeli Gears sound.
poisoned rose
2012-02-29 00:17:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
I'm a fan of Disraeli Gears. I always like it when when of those early
Cream songs comes on. I don't find it any more dated, lyrically, than
those two Donovan albums, which I guess are dated but I don't mind them
at all.
There's something anthemly heroic about the Disraeli Gears sound.
Fine. When you state your views in this way, I have no problem with them.
really real
2012-02-29 00:40:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by really real
I'm a fan of Disraeli Gears. I always like it when when of those early
Cream songs comes on. I don't find it any more dated, lyrically, than
those two Donovan albums, which I guess are dated but I don't mind them
at all.
There's something anthemly heroic about the Disraeli Gears sound.
Fine. When you state your views in this way, I have no problem with them.
I wasn't trying to get your approval. I was trying to get you to say
something about Disraeli Gears.

If you already explained your musical analysis of Disraeli Gears to
marcus, sorry that I missed it. Care to repeat it? Or at least copy and
paste it for me?
poisoned rose
2012-02-29 00:53:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
Post by poisoned rose
Fine. When you state your views in this way, I have no problem with them.
I wasn't trying to get your approval. I was trying to get you to say
something about Disraeli Gears.
If you already explained your musical analysis of Disraeli Gears to
marcus, sorry that I missed it. Care to repeat it? Or at least copy and
paste it for me?
You've already answered one of them. In typical fashion, you *clipped*
my comments about Disraeli Gears (oh yes, you're so interested in this
topic) and instead tried to pick a *new* fight about Surrealistic Pillow.

The smell of desperation. Phew.
really real
2012-02-29 02:19:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by poisoned rose
Post by really real
If you already explained your musical analysis of Disraeli Gears to
marcus, sorry that I missed it. Care to repeat it? Or at least copy and
paste it for me?
You've already answered one of them. In typical fashion, you *clipped*
my comments about Disraeli Gears (oh yes, you're so interested in this
topic)
Strange Brew is a great song. Tales of Brave Ulysses is a bit
embarrassing now, but I still think its fine 21st Century listening.

It's the slow songs that I really like - Blue Condition, We're Going
Wrong...

This was a very unique group. Very powerful, very musical and very hip.

Was Clapton ever better?
gemjack
2012-02-29 13:17:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by really real
Was Clapton ever better?
No.

-gj
Madara0806
2012-02-27 20:44:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by pest films
With the Beatles/Meet the Beatles
Help!
Blonde on Blonde
Highway 61 Revisited
Aftermath
My Generation
Who Sell Out
Velvet Underground and Nico
Pet Sounds
Ummagumma
Soundtrack albums for:

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Once Upon a Time in the West
The Wild Bunch
The Magnificent Seven
West Side Story
Barbarella
The Great Escape
Planet of the Apes
The V.I.P.'s
How the West Was Won
Dr_dudley
2012-02-28 09:18:04 UTC
Permalink
there were probably some other recordings from the 60s that were great
(since this thread doesn't pretend to be "the 10 greatest").

Soundtracks for "Sound of Music", "West Side Story", and "My Fair
Lady" among them.

If we allowed "jazz" into the equation, Coltrane's "A Love Supreme"
and Pharoah Sanders's "Karma' (the creator has a master plan) probably
fit in. Maybe something Miles.

And of course, if Segovia recorded an album of his farts, it blows
everything else away.

Rare Guitar Video: Andreas Segovia at San Francisco in the 60s


thnaks ya'll
rdd
___
Andrés Segovia (Master Class 1965)


Andres Segovia


Andres Segovia - Asturias

The Loan Arranger
2012-02-28 17:58:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr_dudley
If we allowed "jazz" into the equation, Coltrane's "A Love Supreme"
and Pharoah Sanders's "Karma' (the creator has a master plan) probably
fit in. Maybe something Miles.

Miles Davis - "Kind Of Blue" is another album in my top 10 of all time.
"A Love Supreme" still blows me away!
really real
2012-02-28 18:00:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr_dudley
Post by Dr_dudley
If we allowed "jazz" into the equation, Coltrane's "A Love Supreme"
and Pharoah Sanders's "Karma' (the creator has a master plan) probably
fit in. Maybe something Miles.
Miles Davis - "Kind Of Blue" is another album in my top 10 of all time.
"A Love Supreme" still blows me away!
Kind of Blue is definitely one of the top ten albums of the 60s, along
with East West and Highway 61 Revisited.
Just Walkin'
2012-02-28 21:10:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr_dudley
and Pharoah Sanders's "Karma' (the creator has a master plan) probably
fit in. Maybe something Miles.
Miles Davis - "Kind Of Blue" is another album in my top 10 of all time.
"A Love Supreme" still blows me away!
All tops indeed. In A Silent Way launched yet another era and with it
a genre and a dozen solo careers.
q***@yahoo.com
2012-02-28 18:56:58 UTC
Permalink
LaVern Baker: Saved
Chuck Berry: St. Louis to Liverpool
Jerry Lee Lewis: Live at the Star Club, Hamburg
Little Richard: The Explosive Little Richard
James Brown: Live at the Apollo
Bo Diddley Is a Lover
Bo Diddley's Beach Party
Coast Along with the Coasters
Elvis Presley: TV Special
Elvis Presley: From Elvis in Memphis
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