Analyzing Bob's "hypnotist collector"

[Dylanetics]

"She's a hypnotist collector, you are a walking antique." Although it
doesn't quite make sense, the line resonates with some of the main
themes of "She Belongs to Me," in this case:

1. She's mesmerizing, she has you in a trance.
2. She collects people like you, treats them like objects that she
owns.

How did the two ideas get condensed into one strange line?

I suggest it's the product of Bob's (inspired) editorial
substitutions. He started (in his "first draft") with something much
simpler and more prosaic:

"She's a HISTORICAL collector, you are a walking antique."

That would make sense all right. But you can almost hear Bob
thinking, "Ah, man, that's too concise and too clear." So he tries
inserting something that sounds *very* similar -- probably the first
thing that comes to mind.

"She's a HYSTERICAL collector, you are a walking antique."

But "hysterical" doesn't work in the song, because "she" is supposed to
be fully in control, not at all hysterical.

Bob wouldn't have needed long to think about this one. "Hysterical,
huh? Like that hysteria mental case stuff I read about at Ray's.
That's how Freud got started -- used to think he could cure those
hysterical ladies using hypnosis, like a magician or something...Yeah,
a hypnotist, that's it. She can be a hypnotist!"

"She's a HYPNOTIST collector, you are a walking antique."

Okay, I'm not positive that this is exactly what went through Bob's
mind.

But Psychoanalysis with a capital "P" was a *really* big thing in those
days, and it was always presented in books "historically" -- i.e., as
the heroic story of Freud's successive "discoveries" (first, the
meaning of hysteria, then dreams, oedipus complex, etc.). So anybody
who had read about Psychoanalysis would have known about Freud's
attempt to treat hysterics (always female) using hypnosis, and his
decision to switch to free association, etc.

Bob, of course, read Freud (Chronicles page 37), even though he didn't
care for Dr. Filth. "Hypnosis" would have been a very strong
candidate for Bob or any culturally literate person of that period to
associate with "hysterical." And it kind of sounds like "hysterical,"
to boot.

I estimate that, once it started, the trip from HISTORICAL to
HYSTERICAL to HYPNOTIST took Bob roughly 5.6 seconds.

[Derek Homsberg]

Post by Dylanetics
I suggest it's the product of Bob's (inspired) editorial
substitutions. He started (in his "first draft") with something much
"She's a HISTORICAL collector, you are a walking antique."

Of course, this is pure conjecture on your part.

Post by Dylanetics
Okay, I'm not positive that this is exactly what went through Bob's
mind.

No kidding.

Your analysis is interesting, but when you actually try to speculate on
previous drafts of which you apparently have no knowledge, you go too far.
You can do the same analysis without speculating on what Bob's drafts
actually looked like.

[dylanstubs]

I wish Rachel was around to weigh in on this one.

[James Zadok]

Post by Dylanetics
But Psychoanalysis with a capital "P" was a *really* big thing in those
days, and it was always presented in books "historically" -- i.e., as
the heroic story of Freud's successive "discoveries" (first, the
meaning of hysteria, then dreams, oedipus complex, etc.). So anybody
who had read about Psychoanalysis would have known about Freud's
attempt to treat hysterics (always female) using hypnosis, and his
decision to switch to free association, etc.
Bob, of course, read Freud (Chronicles page 37), even though he didn't
care for Dr. Filth. "Hypnosis" would have been a very strong
candidate for Bob or any culturally literate person of that period to
associate with "hysterical." And it kind of sounds like "hysterical,"
to boot.

Dylan didn't even have to read the book. John Huston's "Freud," starring
Montgomery Clift, had laid out that very same history quite clearly in 1962,
just a couple of years before the song was written..

[Dylanetics]

Post by James Zadok

Post by Dylanetics
But Psychoanalysis with a capital "P" was a *really* big thing in those
days, and it was always presented in books "historically" -- i.e., as
the heroic story of Freud's successive "discoveries" (first, the
meaning of hysteria, then dreams, oedipus complex, etc.). So anybody
who had read about Psychoanalysis would have known about Freud's
attempt to treat hysterics (always female) using hypnosis, and his
decision to switch to free association, etc.
Bob, of course, read Freud (Chronicles page 37), even though he didn't
care for Dr. Filth. "Hypnosis" would have been a very strong
candidate for Bob or any culturally literate person of that period to
associate with "hysterical." And it kind of sounds like

"hysterical,"

Post by James Zadok

Post by Dylanetics
to boot.

Dylan didn't even have to read the book. John Huston's "Freud," starring
Montgomery Clift, had laid out that very same history quite clearly in 1962,
just a couple of years before the song was written..

Excellent catch, JZ. Thanks for pointing it out.

The screenplay for "Freud" (1962) was written by Jean-Paul Sartre [!],
so you know it was A Big Deal.

I haven't seen the movie, but an article on the website of the British
Psychoanalytical Society (excerpt and link below) says Sartre put
special emphasis on Freud's "revolutionary struggle for the liberation
of 'oppressed' HYSTERICS," who were presented as victims of their
puritanical society (old-lady judges, probably).

Another on-line article (excerpt and link below) says that Sartre
wanted Marilyn Monroe [!] to play Freud's hysterical patient, but her
psychoanalyst objected. The role went to Susannah York.

The "movie had a long run at an art house in New York, and the critics
(mostly) liked it, but the larger public gave it a miss."

Chronicles testifies that Bob was a big movie fan back in Hibbing.

This is mad speculation, of course, but could Bob have gone to those
art house movies when he was living in NYC?!?

For the curious, here are the two articles on the Freud movie, together
with a couple of quotations.

1. Alain de Mijolla, "Freud and the psychoanalytic situation on the
screen." www.psychoanalysis.org.uk/mijola.htm

Freud [Montgomery Clift] almost always appears in the film as being
furious, with a "gloomy look", rigid, pale, absolutely devoid of humor,
trapped in his own neurosis up to the point of becoming a lucid
Sartrean consciousness, by ridding himself of the protective and hated
fathers with whom he had surrounded himself. Driven by the hostility of
Viennese doctors, pricked by antisemitism, he commits himself,
according to Sartre's conceptions, to a revolutionary struggle for the
liberation of "oppressed" hysterics, unjustly accused of "simulation",
because of the puritanism of the society."

2. Norman N. Holland, "Seeing Huston's 'Freud'"
www.clas.ufl.edu/users/nnh/huston.htm

In particular, Sartre contributed the excellent scheme of creating a
composite patient, Cecily, who could take on story elements from a
whole cast of patients (Anna O., Elisabeth von R., Dora, et al.) in
Breuer and Freud's "Studies in Hysteria."

Less fortunate was the scene Sartre invented of Freud massaging the
buttocks of "une jeune et jolie fille," lying naked (except for her
black stockings) under a towel on the canonical couch. But perhaps the
scene says more about Sartre than Freud.

According to Huston, Sartre suggested that Marilyn Monroe play the
composite patient, Cecily. Monroe's analyst (Ralph Greenson?) objected,
however, but not on therapeutic grounds. Anna Freud, ever the guardian
of her father's reputation, opposed the whole project.

[snip]

"Freud" flopped. It had a long run at an art house in New York, and the
critics (mostly) liked it, but the larger public gave it a miss. "The
box office was decent in the big cities, but poor in the rest of the
country, where it counts," reports LaGuardia. Nor was it a critical
success. Bosley Crowther in the Times listed "Freud" as one of the
year's ten best, but The New Yorker disliked Clift's performance,
saying that a boyish young American of the nineteen-sixties had little
to do with a somber young Viennese Jew in the eighteen-eighties.
Penelope Gilliatt, writing in The London Observer was sarcastic about
Clift's "freezing basilisk eyes, which is what commercial filmmakers
feel visionaries should have."

[James Zadok]

Post by Dylanetics
The "movie had a long run at an art house in New York, and the critics
(mostly) liked it, but the larger public gave it a miss."
Chronicles testifies that Bob was a big movie fan back in Hibbing.
This is mad speculation, of course, but could Bob have gone to those
art house movies when he was living in NYC?!?

Mad speculation, indeed. The film played for about four months at Cinema I
and Cinema II on New York's midtown East Side, before hitting the nabes and
playing at the Greenwich on 12th Street, near 7th Avenue, for a few more
weeks.

Incidentally, the 1962 date for the film is somewhat misleading, since it
actually opened in December of that year. Its major run occurred in 1963,
putting it into even closer proximity with the writing of the song. So, I
guess we can all agree now that this is beginning to look like pretty much a
sure thing.

[Dylanetics]

Yep, I think it's almost in the bag.

Thanks for digging up the facts!

[Nate Smith]

Post by Dylanetics
I estimate that, once it started, the trip from HISTORICAL to
HYSTERICAL to HYPNOTIST took Bob roughly 5.6 seconds.

you know, i'm thinking maybe i really
dont want any of what you're smoking afterall...

;-)


- nate

[Delia]

HISTORICAL to
HYSTERICAL to HYPNOTIST

This isn't going to be like the railroad gauge episode, is it?

--
Delia

[Jim (Guitar Centre Records)]

Dylan has talked about a stream of vomit as his writing process. This does
not suggest 'drafts' to me.

Jim

Post by Dylanetics
"She's a hypnotist collector, you are a walking antique." Although it
doesn't quite make sense, the line resonates with some of the main
1. She's mesmerizing, she has you in a trance.
2. She collects people like you, treats them like objects that she
owns.
How did the two ideas get condensed into one strange line?
I suggest it's the product of Bob's (inspired) editorial
substitutions. He started (in his "first draft") with something much
"She's a HISTORICAL collector, you are a walking antique."
That would make sense all right. But you can almost hear Bob
thinking, "Ah, man, that's too concise and too clear." So he tries
inserting something that sounds *very* similar -- probably the first
thing that comes to mind.
"She's a HYSTERICAL collector, you are a walking antique."
But "hysterical" doesn't work in the song, because "she" is supposed to
be fully in control, not at all hysterical.
Bob wouldn't have needed long to think about this one. "Hysterical,
huh? Like that hysteria mental case stuff I read about at Ray's.
That's how Freud got started -- used to think he could cure those
hysterical ladies using hypnosis, like a magician or something...Yeah,
a hypnotist, that's it. She can be a hypnotist!"
"She's a HYPNOTIST collector, you are a walking antique."
Okay, I'm not positive that this is exactly what went through Bob's
mind.
But Psychoanalysis with a capital "P" was a *really* big thing in those
days, and it was always presented in books "historically" -- i.e., as
the heroic story of Freud's successive "discoveries" (first, the
meaning of hysteria, then dreams, oedipus complex, etc.). So anybody
who had read about Psychoanalysis would have known about Freud's
attempt to treat hysterics (always female) using hypnosis, and his
decision to switch to free association, etc.
Bob, of course, read Freud (Chronicles page 37), even though he didn't
care for Dr. Filth. "Hypnosis" would have been a very strong
candidate for Bob or any culturally literate person of that period to
associate with "hysterical." And it kind of sounds like "hysterical,"
to boot.
I estimate that, once it started, the trip from HISTORICAL to
HYSTERICAL to HYPNOTIST took Bob roughly 5.6 seconds.

[Temporary Like Achilles]

Isn't it more likely that Dylan started with "hypnotist" and either
immediately or after some thought, hit on the wonderfully inspired pun,
"antique"?

Temporary

[Derek Homsberg]

Post by Temporary Like Achilles
Isn't it more likely that Dylan started with "hypnotist" and either
immediately or after some thought, hit on the wonderfully inspired pun,
"antique"?

My sister knew a guy in school who referred to breasts as "antiques." Later
we learned that this guy's mother owned an antique shop. It's possible
Dylan knew or heard of my sister's school mate and intended "antique" to
mean "breast." It's likely that in the first draft Dylan had written 'you
are a "stalking beast."' In a subsequent draft, he changed "stalking" to
"walking" and changed "beast" to "breast." Then he thought of my sister's
school mate and realized that "breast" could be "antique."

[Jim (Guitar Centre Records)]

I think you're on to something there, my friend.

Mind you, wouldn't that make her a walking breast? I'm put in mind of that
giant roaming breast in the Woody Allen film (Sleeper?) Despite what you
might think the reality of a vast unleashed breast coming at you with milk
spurts is not necessarily a good thing. I've seen grown men whimper and cry
at the approach of such a vast mammary. And, as Mr Allen points out, they
usually hunt in pairs !!!

Jim

Post by Derek Homsberg

Post by Temporary Like Achilles
Isn't it more likely that Dylan started with "hypnotist" and either
immediately or after some thought, hit on the wonderfully inspired pun,
"antique"?

My sister knew a guy in school who referred to breasts as "antiques."

Later

Post by Derek Homsberg
we learned that this guy's mother owned an antique shop. It's possible
Dylan knew or heard of my sister's school mate and intended "antique" to
mean "breast." It's likely that in the first draft Dylan had written 'you
are a "stalking beast."' In a subsequent draft, he changed "stalking" to
"walking" and changed "beast" to "breast." Then he thought of my sister's
school mate and realized that "breast" could be "antique."

[Temporary Like Achilles]

My sister knew a guy in school who referred to breasts as "antiques."

Hmm ... it seems strange that someone your sister knew in school would
refer to breasts as antiques. Usually, it's only married men who think
of them that way.

Temporary

[Derek Homsberg]

Post by Derek Homsberg
My sister knew a guy in school who referred to breasts as "antiques."
Hmm ... it seems strange that someone your sister knew in school would
refer to breasts as antiques. Usually, it's only married men who think
of them that way.

True, but as I said, this guy's mother owned an antique shop, and he was
probably referencing his own mother. Since Dylan obviously knew this guy,
Dylan was probably dealing with his Oedipal issues.

[don freeman]

Post by Dylanetics
"She's a hypnotist collector, you are a walking antique." Although it
doesn't quite make sense, the line resonates with some of the main
1. She's mesmerizing, she has you in a trance.
2. She collects people like you, treats them like objects that she
owns.

I always thought the line "hypnotist collector" was a nice turnaround.
Here's the hypnotist, thinking that he can win over the ladies, and then
she comes along, someone so strong that she collects hypnotists. Now the
hypnotist's days are over, he's a walking antique.

[don freeman]

meanwhile I ran the phrase back and forth through the English-German
translator, and look what came up

she's it a hypnotist collector, you are a whale King antique

[spjohnny]

Post by don freeman
I always thought the line "hypnotist collector" was a nice turnaround.
Here's the hypnotist, thinking that he can win over the ladies, and then
she comes along, someone so strong that she collects hypnotists. Now the
hypnotist's days are over, he's a walking antique.

----------
That was always my impression, too.

[Temporary Like Achilles]

Post by don freeman
I always thought the line "hypnotist collector" was a nice

turnaround.

Post by don freeman
Here's the hypnotist, thinking that he can win over the ladies, and then
she comes along, someone so strong that she collects hypnotists. Now the
hypnotist's days are over, he's a walking antique.

----------
That was always my impression, too.

--
I absolutely agree with that interpretation, especially if we
understand the wonderful pun on an "antique" to derive from its
secondary meaning of "elderly man." The transformation of the man who
wants to "own" this woman then becomes pronounced, and the actions of
this man can be reassessed: "steal[ing] her anything she sees" because
she has caused him to leave his conventional life; "wind[ing] up
peeking through her keyhole/Down upon [his] knees" because he is
obsessed with her and has become, for lack of a better term, a dirty
old man. The allusion to the song "Nobody's Child," which was very
popular at the time, also reinforces the interpretation of an older man
watching a child, although it must be admitted that the child in that
song is a boy. (No Michael Jackson jokes, please.) The final actions,
buying gifts for her birthday and for hallowe'en, are also the actions
of someone older trying to win the affection of the coveted younger
woman, although here they are the actions of a slave rather than a
lover.

It is fascinating, too, to watch the progression in the song: the man
starts out standing, but winds up on his knees; the woman never
stumbles or falls (or faces consequences for her actions); the man
returns to his feet as a "walking antique" but this really only allows
him to be in a position to "bow" and "salute" her; he is not restored
to equality or dignity; he belongs to her. Meanwhile, the
singer/speaker, to whom the woman really *does* belong, watches what is
happening in an amused, almost detached manner.

This kind of triangle -- woman, two lovers -- seems common in Dylan's
work at this time. Is it a reflection of his emerging relationship with
Sara? Or is something else at work?

Temporary

[Nate Smith]

Post by Temporary Like Achilles
This kind of triangle -- woman, two lovers -- seems common in Dylan's
work at this time. Is it a reflection of his emerging relationship with
Sara? Or is something else at work?
Temporary

these are all well & good ideas..


but if i'm not mistaken, the scuttlebutt
was that this was a song for Maria, Sara's
daughter from before.

the law not being able to touch her at all
alluding to the successful custody battle.
i'm not sure where the validity of this came
from, but EDLIS has pretty good sources.

but i *do* like those other lines of thought.
heh - the closest he's going to get to her
is peeking through that keyhole.

and again this *is* the song that led to
the movie title.


- nate

[Poor_Howard]

but if i'm not mistaken, the scuttlebutt was that this was a song

for Maria, Sara's daughter from before.


It seems to me that the song is more likely about Joan Baez - the
clue is in this verse:

She wears an Egyptian ring
That sparkles before she speaks.
She wears an Egyptian ring
That sparkles before she speaks.
She is a hypnotist collector,
You are a walking antique.

According to several biographies, as well as Joan's own memoir, And a
Voice to Sing with, that ring was a gift to her from Bob.

But the song's lyrics clearly are more universal than that. And the
beauty of those lyrics lies in the Zen koan-like irony with which they
belie the song's title. "She Belongs To Me," it proclaims; but - as
in the example of the verse above - although Dylan's narrator may not
realize it, the words he says are whispering that as long as he loves
her without reservation, it's really he who belongs to her, body and
soul.

The woman possesses the hypnotic power of her own mystery, and the
narrator becomes entrapped by his fascination with her:

You will start out standing
Proud to steal her anything she sees.
You will start out standing
Proud to steal her anything she sees.

He can only assert the control over the relationship that the title
implies by discovering some flaw, some excuse, some reason to tell
himself that he doesn't really need her to belong to him after all:

But you will wind up peeking through her keyhole
Down upon your knees.

This sexually charged double-entendre initially seems to describe the
narrator's surrender to the woman's control, until we actually think
about what sorts of things are revealed through keyholes; detectives
spend as much time peeking through them as voyeurs do, and the closer
the narrator gets to his lover's most intimate secrets, the more likely
it becomes that he will find that flaw. And that's why the woman is so
careful. Her every move must be carefully calculated; any misstep, any
premature revelation could break the spell she's woven:

She never stumbles,
She's got no place to fall.
She never stumbles,
She's got no place to fall.
She's nobody's child,
The Law can't touch her at all.

This is Eve Dylan is describing here, looking at the apple and hearing
the Serpent tell her that no, G-d did not say you would die if you took
a bite ... only to find out, after entrancing Adam into sharing the
fatal fruit and being caught in the act by G-d, that - as Dylan
famously wrote of another fascinating female character - "to live
outside the Law, you must be honest." That Biblical parallel is a
cryptogram of how Woman comes to understand the true stakes involved in
her existence. Deciphered, it seems to imply that Woman eventually
learns that she has no room for error in life. Her beautifully
choreographed presence, her mysteriously serene self-assurance is, in
the end, a sadly brittle defense against the potentially horrifying
consequences of losing control - not only of her relationship with
her lover, but of her very destiny, if she commits herself fully to
that relationship.

And Dylan's narrator, looking through that keyhole down upon his knees,
suddenly becomes Adam realizing that he's seeing this woman naked for
the first time - not just physically naked, but also spiritually
naked, the stage presence penetrated, the hidden fears and anxieties
revealed, and all belonging to him, as long as he belongs to her. What
will he decide? Will he commit himself fully to that relationship, even
though that means acknowledging that, like the woman, he will lose
control? Or will he try to assert control? Will he try to become the
one to whom she belongs, without belonging to her in return? And if he
does that, how will she react?

She's got everything she needs,
She's an artist, she don't look back.
She's got everything she needs,
She's an artist, she don't look back.
She can take the dark out of the night time
And paint the daytime black.

It's no accident that John Pennebaker took the title of his landmark
documentary of Dylan's 1965 UK tour from this verse of "She Belongs To
Me," for in that film, Don't Look Back, we actually watch through
Pennebaker's lens as Bob and Joan's relationship as lovers ends before
our eyes -- including the very moment when Joan, stung by Bob's
indifference to her and Bob Neuwirth's cutting sarcasm, decides to
abandon the tour and walks out of the room, having finally realized
that Dylan has everything he needs and that he "don't look back."

That scene is like a script of the song's lyrics, and its conclusion
strikes us with the final, deepest irony they conceal - that neither
the man nor the woman in a relationship can assert control over it
without destroying it. Like Dylan in "Don't Look Back," the woman in
the song never really belongs to anybody but herself.

H.

[Dylanetics]

Post by Poor_Howard

but if i'm not mistaken, the scuttlebutt was that this was a song

for Maria, Sara's daughter from before.
It seems to me that the song is more likely about Joan Baez - the
She wears an Egyptian ring
That sparkles before she speaks.
She wears an Egyptian ring
That sparkles before she speaks.
She is a hypnotist collector,
You are a walking antique.
According to several biographies, as well as Joan's own memoir, And a
Voice to Sing with, that ring was a gift to her from Bob.
But the song's lyrics clearly are more universal than that. And the
beauty of those lyrics lies in the Zen koan-like irony with which they
belie the song's title. "She Belongs To Me," it proclaims; but - as
in the example of the verse above - although Dylan's narrator may not
realize it, the words he says are whispering that as long as he loves
her without reservation, it's really he who belongs to her, body and
soul.
The woman possesses the hypnotic power of her own mystery, and the
You will start out standing
Proud to steal her anything she sees.
You will start out standing
Proud to steal her anything she sees.
He can only assert the control over the relationship that the title
implies by discovering some flaw, some excuse, some reason to tell
But you will wind up peeking through her keyhole
Down upon your knees.
This sexually charged double-entendre initially seems to describe the
narrator's surrender to the woman's control, until we actually think
about what sorts of things are revealed through keyholes; detectives
spend as much time peeking through them as voyeurs do, and the closer
the narrator gets to his lover's most intimate secrets, the more likely
it becomes that he will find that flaw. And that's why the woman is so
careful. Her every move must be carefully calculated; any misstep, any
She never stumbles,
She's got no place to fall.
She never stumbles,
She's got no place to fall.
She's nobody's child,
The Law can't touch her at all.
This is Eve Dylan is describing here, looking at the apple and

hearing

Post by Poor_Howard
the Serpent tell her that no, G-d did not say you would die if you took
a bite ... only to find out, after entrancing Adam into sharing the
fatal fruit and being caught in the act by G-d, that - as Dylan
famously wrote of another fascinating female character - "to live
outside the Law, you must be honest." That Biblical parallel is a
cryptogram of how Woman comes to understand the true stakes involved in
her existence. Deciphered, it seems to imply that Woman eventually
learns that she has no room for error in life. Her beautifully
choreographed presence, her mysteriously serene self-assurance is, in
the end, a sadly brittle defense against the potentially horrifying
consequences of losing control - not only of her relationship with
her lover, but of her very destiny, if she commits herself fully to
that relationship.
And Dylan's narrator, looking through that keyhole down upon his knees,
suddenly becomes Adam realizing that he's seeing this woman naked for
the first time - not just physically naked, but also spiritually
naked, the stage presence penetrated, the hidden fears and anxieties
revealed, and all belonging to him, as long as he belongs to her. What
will he decide? Will he commit himself fully to that relationship, even
though that means acknowledging that, like the woman, he will lose
control? Or will he try to assert control? Will he try to become the
one to whom she belongs, without belonging to her in return? And if he
does that, how will she react?
She's got everything she needs,
She's an artist, she don't look back.
She's got everything she needs,
She's an artist, she don't look back.
She can take the dark out of the night time
And paint the daytime black.
It's no accident that John Pennebaker took the title of his landmark
documentary of Dylan's 1965 UK tour from this verse of "She Belongs To
Me," for in that film, Don't Look Back, we actually watch through
Pennebaker's lens as Bob and Joan's relationship as lovers ends before
our eyes -- including the very moment when Joan, stung by Bob's
indifference to her and Bob Neuwirth's cutting sarcasm, decides to
abandon the tour and walks out of the room, having finally realized
that Dylan has everything he needs and that he "don't look back."
That scene is like a script of the song's lyrics, and its conclusion
strikes us with the final, deepest irony they conceal - that neither
the man nor the woman in a relationship can assert control over it
without destroying it. Like Dylan in "Don't Look Back," the woman in
the song never really belongs to anybody but herself.
H.

Thanks for the thoughtful and imaginative reading, Howard. Makes me
want to check out that "Positively 4th Street" book to get a better
handle on the Bob/Joan thing. I've heard about it, of course, but I've
had trouble taking it seriously... But Bob must have, for a while at
least.

Incidentally, I would guess that it was originally a prosaic "diamond"
ring that "sparkled" -- but that Bob decided to substitute something
more exotic and mysterious. But the fact that he had given an Egyptian
ring to Joan B. would explain why he selected that particular
three-syllable adjective.

It looks to me like he had to hick-ify the pronunciation in the
process... from "eGYPTian" to "E-gyptian"... to match the meter of the
original "DI-amond."

[Nate Smith]

Post by Poor_Howard
That scene is like a script of the song's lyrics, and its conclusion
strikes us with the final, deepest irony they conceal - that neither
the man nor the woman in a relationship can assert control over it
without destroying it. Like Dylan in "Don't Look Back," the woman in
the song never really belongs to anybody but herself.
H.

thanks for the nice write, howard!


- nate

[BakedCivilServant]

Post by don freeman

Post by don freeman
I always thought the line "hypnotist collector" was a nice

turnaround.

Post by don freeman
Here's the hypnotist, thinking that he can win over the ladies, and

then

Post by don freeman
she comes along, someone so strong that she collects hypnotists.

Now

Post by don freeman
the

Post by don freeman
hypnotist's days are over, he's a walking antique.

----------
That was always my impression, too.
--
I absolutely agree with that interpretation, especially if we
understand the wonderful pun on an "antique" to derive from its
secondary meaning of "elderly man." The transformation of the man who
wants to "own" this woman then becomes pronounced, and the actions of
this man can be reassessed: "steal[ing] her anything she sees"

because

Post by don freeman
she has caused him to leave his conventional life; "wind[ing] up
peeking through her keyhole/Down upon [his] knees" because he is
obsessed with her and has become, for lack of a better term, a dirty
old man. The allusion to the song "Nobody's Child," which was very
popular at the time, also reinforces the interpretation of an older man
watching a child, although it must be admitted that the child in that
song is a boy. (No Michael Jackson jokes, please.) The final actions,
buying gifts for her birthday and for hallowe'en, are also the

actions

Post by don freeman
of someone older trying to win the affection of the coveted younger
woman, although here they are the actions of a slave rather than a
lover.
It is fascinating, too, to watch the progression in the song: the man
starts out standing, but winds up on his knees; the woman never
stumbles or falls (or faces consequences for her actions); the man
returns to his feet as a "walking antique" but this really only allows
him to be in a position to "bow" and "salute" her; he is not restored
to equality or dignity; he belongs to her. Meanwhile, the
singer/speaker, to whom the woman really *does* belong, watches what is
happening in an amused, almost detached manner.
This kind of triangle -- woman, two lovers -- seems common in Dylan's
work at this time. Is it a reflection of his emerging relationship with
Sara? Or is something else at work?
Temporary

Let's wait a minute before we hand out the "Post of the Fiscal Quarter"
award. Isn't there a problem with this reading?

It's true that the guy starts out standing ("outstanding"?) and ends up
peeking through a keyhole on his knees. But where is there any
suggestion that he's some kind of ladykiller who could be called a
hypnotist?

The song introduces him standing, "proud to steal her anything she
sees". This sounds much more like some unfortunate dweeb who has just
come under her spell, and actually thinks its a privilege to serve this
femme fatale. He's "proud" to serve her. What's more, he's already
willing to debase himself to win and maintain her favor: it says he's
pround to "steal" anything she sets her eye on.

"She" sounds like a gold-digger, and the guy sounds like somebody who's
just fallen into her clutches, foolishly proud to be at the top of her
list -- this week.

If the guy were a big hypnotist of the ladies, he might vainly show off
his new conquest -- maybe take her around to show his buddies, but the
point would be to show that she's serving *him*, and that she's glad to
do it. (She might be doing his laundry, darning his socks, fetching
him a beer, or whatever.)

Instead, he's presented as proud to serve *her*. He's her earnest
puppy dog from the beginning.

Later in the song, he will be on his knees, no longer her
man-of-the-week. And he'll recognize what a fool he's been. But he's
so lame he'll probably still keep trying to buy her favor.

So I don't see any evidence that he's a hypnotist. In fact, the song
says the opposite. He's the one who's hypotized... proud to steal her
anything she sees.

Admittedly, this guy's fall out of "her" favor would be more striking
if knew that he a history as a ladykiller. But don't see any evidence
for it the song. There's the word "hypnotist," but I think it's
circular to cite it as evidence for Don's reading.

[Robert dudley Dickinson]

Post by Dylanetics
"She's a hypnotist collector, you are a walking antique."

Then there's the hypnotist who helped robbie overcome his stagefright; i
thnik there's a picture in levon's book.

Which postdates SBtM, but underscores the possibility that dylna, like
merlin, is travelling backwards thru time.

i do believe that the original draft ( i was classified 1A prime beef ) had
"hip gnostic connector", but albert cut back on bob's dosage, hence the
revisionist redaction

Y'know, funny or not, i've come to believe the old saw that a mind, like a
parachute, functions only when it's open.

Times like this i wisht i'd never ripped the cord.

"I never met a thread i dident like"

I thikn carl jung said that

Take it easy, but take what you need,
Robert dudley Dickinson

[jackmcinroy]

dudleywrit:
Then there's the hypnotist who helped robbie overcome his stagefright;
i
thnik there's a picture in levon's book.

Which postdates SBtM, but underscores the possibility that dylna, like
merlin, is travelling backwards thru time.

i do believe that the original draft ( i was classified 1A prime beef )
had
"hip gnostic connector", but albert cut back on bob's dosage, hence the
revisionist redaction

Y'know, funny or not, i've come to believe the old saw that a mind,
like a
parachute, functions only when it's open.

Times like this i wisht i'd never ripped the cord.

"I never met a thread i dident like"

I thikn carl jung said that

Take it easy, but take what you need,
Robert dudley Dickinson


hvea oyu evre htugoht batou hvaign a slepglin stet?

[Bernie Woodham]

Post by jackmcinroy
hvea oyu evre htugoht batou hvaign a slepglin stet?

wath deos tath maen?

[jackmcinroy]

oen fo ym ksid
swhdeo em a pgea
fo hits fustf.

[Bernie Woodham]

Post by jackmcinroy
oen fo ym ksid
swhdeo em a pgea
fo hits fustf.

ewll fi eh cna raed ttha, hs'e gto smeohtnig iogng fro mih

[Dan Luke]

Post by Dylanetics
I suggest it's the product of Bob's (inspired) editorial
substitutions. He started (in his "first draft") with something much
"She's a HISTORICAL collector, you are a walking antique."

When it comes to Dylan's songwriting, you absolutely, completely and
profoundly do not get it.

[don freeman]

Post by Dan Luke

Post by Dylanetics
I suggest it's the product of Bob's (inspired) editorial
substitutions. He started (in his "first draft") with something much
"She's a HISTORICAL collector, you are a walking antique."

When it comes to Dylan's songwriting, you absolutely, completely and
profoundly do not get it.

I don't think it's a case of whether Dylanetics gets it or not.
Dylanetics is just riffing away, and we can take from him what we want.
I find his writing entertaining, even if I do skim a lot of it.

[Dan Luke]

Post by don freeman

Post by Dan Luke
When it comes to Dylan's songwriting, you absolutely, completely and
profoundly do not get it.

I don't think it's a case of whether Dylanetics gets it or not.

Perhaps you're right. Perhaps it's merely a case of mental retardation.

Post by don freeman
Dylanetics is just riffing away, and we can take from him what we want.
I find his writing entertaining, even if I do skim a lot of it.

Whatever blows your dress up. To me it's like taking a rose apart with
pliers to find out why it's pretty.

[spjohnny]

Post by Dylanetics
How did the two ideas get condensed into one strange line?
I suggest it's the product of Bob's (inspired) editorial
substitutions. He started (in his "first draft") with something much
"She's a HISTORICAL collector, you are a walking antique."

---------------

Sorry if I'm repeating someone else, but --

the very common phrase (in my part of the US) is not

"historical collector"

but

"antique collector."

We've got thousands of them.

So, maybe Bob started with the boring "antique collector" and moved
"antique" to a different place in the song to spice things up without
losing a sense of coherence.

[Bernie Woodham]

Actually everybody's wrong about the meaning of this line. It so happens
collecting hypnotists was a niche hobby starting from the very late fifties.
This is because social deviants back then were being sent to a lot of
shrinks and they became very familiar with hypnotists. Myself I have
several hypnotists left from my collecting days. I kept the few I have
because they don't eat much; the others nearly drove me to the poor house.

As for the walking antique? I think he was talking about his mummy.

[d]

Post by Bernie Woodham
It so happens
collecting hypnotists was a niche hobby starting from the very late fifties.
This is because social deviants back then were being sent to a lot of
shrinks and they became very familiar with hypnotists. Myself I have
several hypnotists left from my collecting days. I kept the few I have
because they don't eat much; the others nearly drove me to the poor house.
As for the walking antique? I think he was talking about his mummy.

Cldnt help but join the foray ...

hypnotism was/is also a popular way to unlock past lifetimes. in fact,
it seems the popularity of hypnotism somewhat led to this because people
in "analysis" kept going back to "past lifetimes" when giving the root
cause of their "problem".

how valuable wld it be to "find" people today w/rather important or
influential past lifetimes? wld these people not likely become the
leaders, artists, important influences of today as well (given that the
soul evolves and does incarnate randomly ...)

[M. Rick]

I estimate that, once it started, the trip from HISTORICAL to HYSTERICAL to

HYPNOTIST took Bob roughly 5.6 seconds.

Which is 5.5 more seconds than this analysis is worth (give or take .1
seconds).