Bob Dylan and Woody Allen

[don freeman]

When Newsweek called Bob Dylan the most influential cultural figure now
alive they asked rhetorically, who else. Someone on the tv discussion
about the Dylan article pointed out that you have to watch out about the
meaning of influential cultural figures or you could come up with Arnold
Schwarzenegger. I'm wondering about Woody Allen.

Woody Allen has held a unique role in American culture. Starting as a
joke writer, and then a stand-up comic, he evolved into America's finest
film director. A true auteur, he has had total control over his films,
which have ranged from slaptsick silliness to deep metaphysical drama.

Like Bob Dylan, Woody Allen has plenty of detractors, and both Woody and
Dylan work in cultural areas that don't usually result in Nobel Prizes
for literature. Like Bob Dylan in the 80s, Woody is in a real slump
right now, and many assume he won't recover his artistic powers. It's
easy to forget that Woody made Sweet and Lowdown, his last great film,
only five years ago.

Last night I was watching Annie Hall, thanks to its new status as a $10
DVD. I came upon the Bob Dylan scene that I had forgotten about. Woody
is having problems with Annie so he takes his friend's advice and goes
out on a date with a music critic for Rolling Stone, played by Shelly
Duvall. This date consists of going to see some fake Maharishi type
character, and Shelly is all agog, talking to Woody about all her heavy
pop cultural experiences. For the epitomy of pop culture depth, she
quotes the chorus of Just Like a Woman, including the aside, "yes she
does," and Woody just looks blank. It's interesting how easy it is to
take great pop lyrics and make them sound banal.

Woody continues his diatribe against rock music with a joke about Alice
Cooper.In the next scene, when he finds out Annie has gone to a rock
concert, he asks her if it achieved total heavy-ocity. And in an
ultimate assault against rock music, Woody casts Paul Simon as a slime
ball record producer, a performance which sort of ended Simon's acting
career.

Woody obviously has a great love of music. We can see that in his
soundtracks, and in the musical subt-hemes in many of his movies. In his
last movie, Anything Else, Woody showcases Diana Krall. It seems odd
that such an brilliant cultural force as Woody would be deaf to the best
in rock music. Or is he jealous of Bob Dylan?

And I wonder what Bob Dylan thinks of Woody Allen? Dylan obviously would
like to be a filmmaker, but Masked & Anonymous is not going to win him
any awards. We know Woody does not want to be a rock star.

[Jim Linwood]

Post by don freeman
Last night I was watching Annie Hall, thanks to its new status as a $10
DVD. I came upon the Bob Dylan scene that I had forgotten about. Woody
is having problems with Annie so he takes his friend's advice and goes
out on a date with a music critic for Rolling Stone, played by Shelly
Duvall. This date consists of going to see some fake Maharishi type
character, and Shelly is all agog, talking to Woody about all her heavy
pop cultural experiences. For the epitomy of pop culture depth, she
quotes the chorus of Just Like a Woman, including the aside, "yes she
does," and Woody just looks blank. It's interesting how easy it is to
take great pop lyrics and make them sound banal.

The exchange in ANNIE HALL goes like this:

FEMALE REPORTER
I think there are more people here to
see the Maharishi than there were to see
the Dylan concert. I covered the Dylan
concert ... which gave me chills.
Especially when he sang "She takes just
like a woman And she makes love just
like a woman Yes, she does And she aches
just like a woman But she breaks just
like a little girl."
(They move toward the aisles as
a guard holds up his hands to stop
them)
Up to that I guess the most charismatic
event I covered was Mick's Birthday when
the Stones played Madison Square Garden.

ALVY (Woody)
(Laughing)
Man, that's great. That's just great.

REPORTER
You catch Dylan?

ALVY
(Coughing)
Me? No, no. I-I couldn't make it that
ni- My-my raccoon had hepatitis.

REPORTER
You have a raccoon?

ALVY
(Gesturing)
Tsch, a few.

REPORTER
The only word for this is trans-plendid.
It's trans-plendid.

JL

[marlon]

I made some corrections

Post by don freeman
Last night I was watching Annie Hall, thanks to its new status as a $10
DVD. I came upon the Bob Dylan scene that I had forgotten about. Woody
is having problems with Annie so he takes his friend's advice and goes
out on a date with a music critic for Rolling Stone, played by Shelly
Duvall. This date consists of going to see some fake Maharishi type
character, and Shelly is all agog, talking to Woody about all her heavy
pop cultural experiences. For the epitomy of pop culture depth, she
quotes the chorus of Just Like a Woman, including the aside, "yes she
does," and Woody just looks blank. It's interesting how easy it is to
take great pop lyrics and make them sound banal.

FEMALE REPORTER (Juden Raus)
I think there are more people here to
see the Maharishi than there were to see
the Dylan concert. I covered the Dylan
concert ... which gave me chills.
Especially when he sang "She takes just
like a woman And she makes love just
like a woman Yes, she does And she aches
just like a woman But she breaks just
like a little girl."
(They move toward the aisles as
a guard holds up his hands to stop
them)
Up to that I guess the most charismatic
event I covered was Mick's Birthday when
the Stones played Madison Square Garden.
ALVY (Juden Raus)
(Laughing)
Man, that's great. That's just great.
REPORTER (Juden Raus)
You catch Dylan(Juden Raus)?
ALVY (Juden Raus)
(Coughing)
Me? No, no. I-I couldn't make it that
ni- My-my raccoon had hepatitis.
REPORTER (Juden Raus)
You have a raccoon?
ALVY (Juden Raus)
(Gesturing)
Tsch, a few.
REPORTER(Juden Raus)
The only word for this is trans-plendid.
It's trans-plendid.
JL

[lhg]

Post by marlon
I made some corrections

Post by don freeman
Last night I was watching Annie Hall, thanks to its new status as a $10
DVD. I came upon the Bob Dylan scene that I had forgotten about. Woody
is having problems with Annie so he takes his friend's advice and goes
out on a date with a music critic for Rolling Stone, played by Shelly
Duvall. This date consists of going to see some fake Maharishi type
character, and Shelly is all agog, talking to Woody about all her heavy
pop cultural experiences. For the epitomy of pop culture depth, she
quotes the chorus of Just Like a Woman, including the aside, "yes she
does," and Woody just looks blank. It's interesting how easy it is to
take great pop lyrics and make them sound banal.

FEMALE REPORTER (Juden Raus)
I think there are more people here to
see the Maharishi than there were to see
the Dylan concert. I covered the Dylan
concert ... which gave me chills.
Especially when he sang "She takes just
like a woman And she makes love just
like a woman Yes, she does And she aches
just like a woman But she breaks just
like a little girl."
(They move toward the aisles as
a guard holds up his hands to stop
them)
Up to that I guess the most charismatic
event I covered was Mick's Birthday when
the Stones played Madison Square Garden.
ALVY (Juden Raus)
(Laughing)
Man, that's great. That's just great.
REPORTER (Juden Raus)
You catch Dylan(Juden Raus)?
ALVY (Juden Raus)
(Coughing)
Me? No, no. I-I couldn't make it that
ni- My-my raccoon had hepatitis.
REPORTER (Juden Raus)
You have a raccoon?
ALVY (Juden Raus)
(Gesturing)
Tsch, a few.
REPORTER(Juden Raus)
The only word for this is trans-plendid.
It's trans-plendid.
JL

What is interesting to me about this post is not that they are both
influential American artists. It's that after reading the excerpt of
Dylan's lyric, and then going back to the whole song, and then reading
Woody's lines, it becomes quite apparent that one translates
beautifully to the page (Woody) and the other (Dylan) does appear to
be banal. This could be a result of the medium's they work in,
although removing the movie from the script and removing the song from
the lyric seems to be almost equally fair. The moral of the story, I
have no idea...

[BGR200]

Post by Jim Linwood

Post by don freeman
Last night I was watching Annie Hall, thanks to its new status as a $10
DVD. I came upon the Bob Dylan scene that I had forgotten about. Woody
is having problems with Annie so he takes his friend's advice and goes
out on a date with a music critic for Rolling Stone, played by Shelly
Duvall. This date consists of going to see some fake Maharishi type
character, and Shelly is all agog, talking to Woody about all her heavy
pop cultural experiences. For the epitomy of pop culture depth, she
quotes the chorus of Just Like a Woman, including the aside, "yes she
does," and Woody just looks blank. It's interesting how easy it is to
take great pop lyrics and make them sound banal.

FEMALE REPORTER
I think there are more people here to
see the Maharishi than there were to see
the Dylan concert. I covered the Dylan
concert ... which gave me chills.
Especially when he sang "She takes just
like a woman And she makes love just
like a woman Yes, she does And she aches
just like a woman But she breaks just
like a little girl."
(They move toward the aisles as
a guard holds up his hands to stop
them)
Up to that I guess the most charismatic
event I covered was Mick's Birthday when
the Stones played Madison Square Garden.
ALVY (Woody)
(Laughing)
Man, that's great. That's just great.
REPORTER
You catch Dylan?
ALVY
(Coughing)
Me? No, no. I-I couldn't make it that
ni- My-my raccoon had hepatitis.
REPORTER
You have a raccoon?
ALVY
(Gesturing)
Tsch, a few.
REPORTER
The only word for this is trans-plendid.
It's trans-plendid.
JL

Post by don freeman
Last night I was watching Annie Hall, thanks to its new status as a $10
DVD. I came upon the Bob Dylan scene that I had forgotten about. Woody
is having problems with Annie so he takes his friend's advice and goes
out on a date with a music critic for Rolling Stone, played by Shelly
Duvall. This date consists of going to see some fake Maharishi type
character, and Shelly is all agog, talking to Woody about all her heavy
pop cultural experiences. For the epitomy of pop culture depth, she
quotes the chorus of Just Like a Woman, including the aside, "yes she
does," and Woody just looks blank. It's interesting how easy it is to
take great pop lyrics and make them sound banal.

FEMALE REPORTER
I think there are more people here to
see the Maharishi than there were to see
the Dylan concert. I covered the Dylan
concert ... which gave me chills.
Especially when he sang "She takes just
like a woman And she makes love just
like a woman Yes, she does And she aches
just like a woman But she breaks just
like a little girl."
(They move toward the aisles as
a guard holds up his hands to stop
them)
Up to that I guess the most charismatic
event I covered was Mick's Birthday when
the Stones played Madison Square Garden.
ALVY (Woody)
(Laughing)
Man, that's great. That's just great.
REPORTER
You catch Dylan?
ALVY
(Coughing)
Me? No, no. I-I couldn't make it that
ni- My-my raccoon had hepatitis.
REPORTER
You have a raccoon?
ALVY
(Gesturing)
Tsch, a few.
REPORTER
The only word for this is trans-plendid.
It's trans-plendid.
JL
That would have been the 1974 tour with The Band. In order for Woody to have

penned the reporter's comments, sounds like he may have seen the concert or
listened to "Before The Flood" ....."But she breaks just like a little
girl..hhrl"

[Tedalvy]

in 1965 we (my best bud michael and me) saw dylan at the hollywood bowl on
september third [solo opening set followed by electric set: Bob Dylan (guitar,
harp, piano on Thin Man); Robbie Robertson (guitar); Al Kooper (organ); Harvey
Brooks bass); Levon Helm (drums)] performing a concert that must have affected
many like it affected us: rock music would never be the same for us. circa
1965/66 we also saw woody allen do stand up comedy at the greek theatre in los
angeles (opening for our girl friends fave johnny mathis) and for me comedy
would never be the same (sadly we never got to see lenny bruce live). peace,
ted alvy [no relation to alvy singer of annie hall fame, or is there?]

[WS Krispy]

Sorry but Woody Allen is a vastly overrated Catskills act with a tiny dash
of third-hand intellectualism and carefully posed angst thrown in. I doubt
he knows enough to be jealous of Dylan, who is many thousand times the
artist he is. Allen fancies himself a real music connoisseur because he can
blow a clarinet a little and uses his star power to get topflight jazz guys
to jam with him. I've heard some of it. Totally derivative, even moreso than
his comedy.

--
wsk

Post by don freeman
When Newsweek called Bob Dylan the most influential cultural figure now
alive they asked rhetorically, who else. Someone on the tv discussion
about the Dylan article pointed out that you have to watch out about the
meaning of influential cultural figures or you could come up with Arnold
Schwarzenegger. I'm wondering about Woody Allen.
Woody Allen has held a unique role in American culture. Starting as a joke
writer, and then a stand-up comic, he evolved into America's finest film
director. A true auteur, he has had total control over his films, which
have ranged from slaptsick silliness to deep metaphysical drama.
Like Bob Dylan, Woody Allen has plenty of detractors, and both Woody and
Dylan work in cultural areas that don't usually result in Nobel Prizes for
literature. Like Bob Dylan in the 80s, Woody is in a real slump right now,
and many assume he won't recover his artistic powers. It's easy to forget
that Woody made Sweet and Lowdown, his last great film, only five years
ago.
Last night I was watching Annie Hall, thanks to its new status as a $10
DVD. I came upon the Bob Dylan scene that I had forgotten about. Woody is
having problems with Annie so he takes his friend's advice and goes out on
a date with a music critic for Rolling Stone, played by Shelly Duvall.
This date consists of going to see some fake Maharishi type character, and
Shelly is all agog, talking to Woody about all her heavy pop cultural
experiences. For the epitomy of pop culture depth, she quotes the chorus
of Just Like a Woman, including the aside, "yes she does," and Woody just
looks blank. It's interesting how easy it is to take great pop lyrics and
make them sound banal.
Woody continues his diatribe against rock music with a joke about Alice
Cooper.In the next scene, when he finds out Annie has gone to a rock
concert, he asks her if it achieved total heavy-ocity. And in an ultimate
assault against rock music, Woody casts Paul Simon as a slime ball record
producer, a performance which sort of ended Simon's acting career.
Woody obviously has a great love of music. We can see that in his
soundtracks, and in the musical subt-hemes in many of his movies. In his
last movie, Anything Else, Woody showcases Diana Krall. It seems odd that
such an brilliant cultural force as Woody would be deaf to the best in
rock music. Or is he jealous of Bob Dylan?
And I wonder what Bob Dylan thinks of Woody Allen? Dylan obviously would
like to be a filmmaker, but Masked & Anonymous is not going to win him any
awards. We know Woody does not want to be a rock star.

[don freeman]

Post by WS Krispy
Sorry but Woody Allen is a vastly overrated Catskills act with a tiny dash
of third-hand intellectualism and carefully posed angst thrown in.

Have you ever seen a Woody Allen film that you liked? What about Bullets
over Broadway or Crimse and Misdemeaners? What about the Purple Rose of
Cairo, or Radio Days?

[rankflv]

I banned woody from my tv set. I don't like Pedophiles. Forever his
art will be less. I use to like him but . . . I just can't anymore.
All meaning gets lost in a cloud of yuck.

[don freeman]

Post by rankflv
I banned woody from my tv set. I don't like Pedophiles. Forever his
art will be less. I use to like him but . . . I just can't anymore.
All meaning gets lost in a cloud of yuck.

I wouldn't believe that pedophile story if I were you. Remember what
happens to a woman scorned. Mia is not a reliable witness.

Besides, if I started censoring art because of nasty stories I've heard
about the artists, I wouldn't be able to listen to a lot of
singer-songwriters.

[J Buck]

I thought 'Hollywood Ending' was a riot.

[Delia]

Post by don freeman

Post by WS Krispy
Sorry but Woody Allen is a vastly overrated Catskills act with a tiny dash
of third-hand intellectualism and carefully posed angst thrown in.

Have you ever seen a Woody Allen film that you liked? What about Bullets
over Broadway or Crimse and Misdemeaners? What about the Purple Rose of
Cairo, or Radio Days?

He's done some very fine films, among them the ones you mention. I would
also add some of his early comedies like Sleeper and Bananas. I watched
Sleeper about a year ago with my daughter and her cousins and everyone was
rolling on the floor. And while a lot of his recent films have been duds,
I really like Sweet And Lowdown.

That said, I just don't think that Woody Allen's art goes to the heart of
our culture the way Dylan's best work does.

[John Howells]

"Delia" <***@sbcglobal.net> writes:

<He's done some very fine films, among them the ones you mention. I would
<also add some of his early comedies like Sleeper and Bananas. I watched
<Sleeper about a year ago with my daughter and her cousins and everyone was
<rolling on the floor. And while a lot of his recent films have been duds,
<I really like Sweet And Lowdown.

<That said, I just don't think that Woody Allen's art goes to the heart of
<our culture the way Dylan's best work does.

"Annie Hall" was the last worthwhile film Woody Allen ever did. After
that, he became enamored of his own exhalted position as a "serious"
filmmaker and his career has been wildly uneven ever since.

His funniest films were the ones he made when he wasn't trying to
prove how important he was: "What's Up Tiger Lily" still cracks me
up every time I see it. It's silly, absurd, and completely
unpretentious. "Take the Money and Run" was a perfect parody of a
serious police documentary, and "Bananas" was equally absurd and
hilarious. "Sleeper" was his own version of a Bob Hope movie and
has some great slapstick moments. Finally, "Everything You Ever
Wanted To Know About Sex (But Were Afraid To Ask)" is a pretty funny
series of bits all done up in the style of various different film
genres. "Love and Death" hasn't dated well, I'm afraid, and "Annie
Hall" was his comeback after that misfire - and it might have been
even better in its original concept under the various working titles
"Anhedonia" and "Woody Allen's Anxieties".

Too bad that after the success of "Annie Hall" he lost his surrealist
edge and went for a more realistic style, and the few times he
sought to recapture his absurdist spirit, he failed miserably and
it only pointed out how much he had lost touch with what made him
funny in the first place.

[don freeman]

Post by John Howells
Too bad that after the success of "Annie Hall" he lost his surrealist
edge and went for a more realistic style, and the few times he
sought to recapture his absurdist spirit, he failed miserably and
it only pointed out how much he had lost touch with what made him
funny in the first place.

What about The Purple Rose of Cairo as a funny, surreal and absurdist
film? What about Zelig? Even Small Time Crooks is a good comedy.

Woody's been uneven, but he's scored again and again since Annie Hall.

[michele l'ulysse]

Post by don freeman

Post by John Howells
Too bad that after the success of "Annie Hall" he lost his surrealist
edge and went for a more realistic style, and the few times he
sought to recapture his absurdist spirit, he failed miserably and
it only pointed out how much he had lost touch with what made him
funny in the first place.

What about The Purple Rose of Cairo as a funny, surreal and absurdist
film? What about Zelig? Even Small Time Crooks is a good comedy.
Woody's been uneven, but he's scored again and again since Annie Hall.

You can move in many directions as an artist, Bob shows this truth to
us, I don't think Woody is good just with gags or subrealistcs stuff,
September is a great movie, to me,

the matter is that he's lost something in the nineties,
too many movies, and many delusions,
the only one good to me was "Deconstructing Harry" and the one that's
called literally "Bullets on Broadway" in italian, but there he's not
the author of the screenplay, Chaz Palmintieri is the author, and the
screenplay is really good.

Last movies are light, and presumptuos, Mighty Aphrodite is so boring,
and he's repeating too much his own cliches.

He's stuck inside of NY with an aged blues nowdays...

Michele

[don freeman]

Chaz Palmintieri is the author, and the

Post by michele l'ulysse
screenplay is really good.
Last movies are light, and presumptuos, Mighty Aphrodite is so boring,
and he's repeating too much his own cliches.
He's stuck inside of NY with an aged blues nowdays...

But surely we shouldn't count him out yet. Many filmmakers do their best
work when they are in the last decade of their life.

[J Buck]

<Mighty Aphrodite is so boring>

Any movie with Mira Sorvino portraying a hooker is _not_ boring

[Warren Barr]

How come nobody has mentioned 'Manhattan'? This is IMO one of his best
and I thought most people felt the same.

Warren

[Michael Jones]

Post by Warren Barr
How come nobody has mentioned 'Manhattan'? This is IMO one of his best
and I thought most people felt the same.
Warren

Nobody has yet mentioned "Play It Again, Sam" either, and that is probably
my favourite 'Woody Allen' film, even though he didn't direct it.

[John Howells]

"Michael Jones" <***@tesco.net> writes:

<"Warren Barr" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
<news:2992-41654358-***@storefull-3111.bay.webtv.net...
<> How come nobody has mentioned 'Manhattan'? This is IMO one of his best
<> and I thought most people felt the same.
<>
<> Warren
<>
<Nobody has yet mentioned "Play It Again, Sam" either, and that is probably
<my favourite 'Woody Allen' film, even though he didn't direct it.

As long as we're mentioning Woody Allen films that he didn't direct,
he was pretty good in "The Front".

[tom .]

Post by John Howells
<Nobody has yet mentioned "Play It Again, Sam" either, and that is probably
<my favourite 'Woody Allen' film, even though he didn't direct it.
As long as we're mentioning Woody Allen films that he didn't direct,
he was pretty good in "The Front".

and what about his books? they're much better and far more entertaining
that bob's. they don't make jews like woody anymore. that fella writes
some funny stuff. and a philosopher to boot.

the heart wants what the heart wants.

.

[tom .]

pardon. than, not that.

Post by tom .

Post by John Howells
<Nobody has yet mentioned "Play It Again, Sam" either, and that is probably
<my favourite 'Woody Allen' film, even though he didn't direct it.
As long as we're mentioning Woody Allen films that he didn't direct,
he was pretty good in "The Front".

and what about his books? they're much better and far more entertaining
thaN bob's. they don't make jews like woody anymore. that fella writes
some funny stuff. and a philosopher to boot.
the heart wants what the heart wants.
.

[Perry Sailor]

Post by Michael Jones

Post by Warren Barr
How come nobody has mentioned 'Manhattan'? This is IMO one of his best
and I thought most people felt the same.
Warren

Nobody has yet mentioned "Play It Again, Sam" either, and that is probably
my favourite 'Woody Allen' film, even though he didn't direct it.

Nor has anyone mentioned "Hannah And Her Sisters," which is my favorite with
"Annie Hall" and "Manhattan." I thought "Husbands and Wives" was great too.
The man's made nearly as many great films as Dylan has great albums.

Perry

[Your Pal Brian]

Post by Perry Sailor
Nor has anyone mentioned "Hannah And Her Sisters,"

I mentioned that one down a ways. That was his Oscar winner, right?

Post by Perry Sailor
I thought "Husbands and Wives" was great too.

It certainly was.

Post by Perry Sailor
The man's made nearly as many great films as Dylan has great albums.

Another Woman and Manhattan Murder Mystery never get any press, but both are
excellent. MMM is one of the best introductions for the neophyte, I think.

Alice and Celebrity are good too, even though everybody hated Celebrity, but
what do they know?

Sweet and Lowdown, Stardust Memories, Broadway Danny Rose, Jade Scorpion... Oh
fuck it, they're all good!

Not to mention polymorphously perverse.

Brian

[Warren Barr]

Not only was Mira Sorvino playing a hooker in 'Mighty Aphrodite', in the
same movie she was shown in bed with another woman in a porno film.

'Play it Again, Sam' has one of my all time favorite scenes in a Woody
Allen film. The scene where he meets his blind date that his friends
(Diane Keaton and Tony Robbins?) arranged at his apartment is absolutely
classic. The actual setting up of the blind date is almost as funny
where he covers his ears and makes strange noises so he cannot hear
Diane Keaton talking on the phone with the girl she is setting him up
with.

Warren

[michele l'ulysse]

Post by Your Pal Brian
Another Woman and Manhattan Murder Mystery never get any press, but both are
excellent. MMM is one of the best introductions for the neophyte, I think.

I don't agree,
this was good the first half, the second missed the target

Post by Your Pal Brian
Sweet and Lowdown, Stardust Memories, Broadway Danny Rose, Jade Scorpion... >Oh fuck it, they're all good!

Jade Scorpion is poor and it made me sad, sad to see Woody could that
kind of bullshit

Michele

[s***@verizon.net]

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:47:36 GMT, "Michael Jones"

Post by Michael Jones

Post by Warren Barr
How come nobody has mentioned 'Manhattan'? This is IMO one of his best
and I thought most people felt the same.
Warren

Nobody has yet mentioned "Play It Again, Sam" either, and that is probably
my favourite 'Woody Allen' film, even though he didn't direct it.

let's mention Broadway Danny and Hannah as well.
s
teve

[devorahmuse]

You wanna see a weird Woody movie..that's really saying something
about true modern day neurosis...Go rent INTERIORS..that one kicked my
butt but not really that funny, mind you hehehe..well maybe I'd laugh
now heheh

I love his movies generally it is always something in there I relate
with at such a deep level in spite of the rather superficial facade he
presents, he sees something underneath this modern morrass that I
gotta say Woody is one of the best social commentators in a most
creative way than any comtemporary...for the most part.
I love Woody

[Delia]

Post by devorahmuse
You wanna see a weird Woody movie..that's really saying something
about true modern day neurosis...Go rent INTERIORS..that one kicked my
butt but not really that funny, mind you hehehe..well maybe I'd laugh
now heheh
I love his movies generally it is always something in there I relate
with at such a deep level in spite of the rather superficial facade he
presents, he sees something underneath this modern morrass that I
gotta say Woody is one of the best social commentators in a most
creative way than any comtemporary...for the most part.
I love Woody

Now that's one I didn't like. Woody trying to be Ingmar Bergman.

[Eugene Goodale]

I thought it was more of a homage to Bergman. Perfect vehicle for a
portrayal of modern american upperclass self-absorbed neurosis. I thought it
was brilliant.

G.

Post by Delia
Now that's one I didn't like. Woody trying to be Ingmar Bergman.
--
Delia

[devorahmuse]

Post by Delia

Post by devorahmuse
You wanna see a weird Woody movie..that's really saying something
about true modern day neurosis...Go rent INTERIORS..that one kicked my
butt but not really that funny, mind you hehehe..well maybe I'd laugh
now heheh

Now that's one I didn't like. Woody trying to be Ingmar Bergman.

Yeah I didn't like it either However it stuck with me. Perhaps if I
saw it again my mind would say what yours is saying too. I guess when
something sticks with me I take it as having some notable value in
some strange way heheeh.
don't shoot the muse! hahahaha

[Your Pal Brian]

Post by WS Krispy
Allen fancies himself a real music connoisseur because he can
blow a clarinet a little and uses his star power to get topflight jazz guys
to jam with him. I've heard some of it. Totally derivative, even moreso than
his comedy.

In the Eric Lax book On Being Funny, Woody says his biggest musical influence
was George Lewis.

Whether that's a Dylan connection or not is still a matter of controversy.

Allen's never liked rock music of any kind - remember Daniel Stern's
rich-but-shallow rock star in Hannah And Her Sisters, and also the disastrous
date at the punk club which he flees to go hear Bobby Short. He's always said
the stuff he grew up with was the best music ever. Harry James, Cole Porter,
that bunch.

Brian

[don freeman]

Post by Your Pal Brian
Allen's never liked rock music of any kind - remember Daniel Stern's
rich-but-shallow rock star in Hannah And Her Sisters, and also the disastrous
date at the punk club which he flees to go hear Bobby Short. He's always said
the stuff he grew up with was the best music ever. Harry James, Cole Porter,
that bunch.

He really makes fun of marijuana smoking in Annie Hall as well.

[lhg]

Post by WS Krispy
Sorry but Woody Allen is a vastly overrated Catskills act with a tiny dash
of third-hand intellectualism and carefully posed angst thrown in. I doubt
he knows enough to be jealous of Dylan, who is many thousand times the
artist he is. Allen fancies himself a real music connoisseur because he can
blow a clarinet a little and uses his star power to get topflight jazz guys
to jam with him. I've heard some of it. Totally derivative, even moreso than
his comedy.

And if you can say that about Woody Allen, what are you? What an asshole.

[Scott Marshall]

Post by don freeman
When Newsweek called Bob Dylan the most influential cultural figure now
alive they asked rhetorically, who else. Someone on the tv discussion
about the Dylan article pointed out that you have to watch out about the
meaning of influential cultural figures or you could come up with Arnold
Schwarzenegger. I'm wondering about Woody Allen.
Woody Allen has held a unique role in American culture. Starting as a
joke writer, and then a stand-up comic, he evolved into America's finest
film director. A true auteur, he has had total control over his films,
which have ranged from slaptsick silliness to deep metaphysical drama.
Like Bob Dylan, Woody Allen has plenty of detractors, and both Woody and
Dylan work in cultural areas that don't usually result in Nobel Prizes
for literature. Like Bob Dylan in the 80s, Woody is in a real slump
right now, and many assume he won't recover his artistic powers. It's
easy to forget that Woody made Sweet and Lowdown, his last great film,
only five years ago.
Last night I was watching Annie Hall, thanks to its new status as a $10
DVD. I came upon the Bob Dylan scene that I had forgotten about. Woody
is having problems with Annie so he takes his friend's advice and goes
out on a date with a music critic for Rolling Stone, played by Shelly
Duvall. This date consists of going to see some fake Maharishi type
character, and Shelly is all agog, talking to Woody about all her heavy
pop cultural experiences. For the epitomy of pop culture depth, she
quotes the chorus of Just Like a Woman, including the aside, "yes she
does," and Woody just looks blank. It's interesting how easy it is to
take great pop lyrics and make them sound banal.
Woody continues his diatribe against rock music with a joke about Alice
Cooper.In the next scene, when he finds out Annie has gone to a rock
concert, he asks her if it achieved total heavy-ocity. And in an
ultimate assault against rock music, Woody casts Paul Simon as a slime
ball record producer, a performance which sort of ended Simon's acting
career.
Woody obviously has a great love of music. We can see that in his
soundtracks, and in the musical subt-hemes in many of his movies. In his
last movie, Anything Else, Woody showcases Diana Krall. It seems odd
that such an brilliant cultural force as Woody would be deaf to the best
in rock music. Or is he jealous of Bob Dylan?
And I wonder what Bob Dylan thinks of Woody Allen? Dylan obviously would
like to be a filmmaker, but Masked & Anonymous is not going to win him
any awards. We know Woody does not want to be a rock star.

Although Woody Allen has had great fun poking fun at psychoanalysis,
any resulting wisdom seems hard-fought. Dylan, on the other hand,
seems to be dismissive of Freud and the field in general.

They both have covered quite a bit of metaphysical ground (as you
point out), with Allen being more wary (to say the least) of God's
existence.

Maybe you saw this, but in the first chapter of Chronicles Dylan
namechecks Allen when sharing his memory of the marquee performers who
would "command the stage" during the evening gigs at Cafe Wha?.

And hey, Sweet and Lowdown featured the Chronicles audio guy! Has
Diana Krall covered a Dylan song?

I'm thinking someone's written an article on Dylan & Allen. If not,
it seems it could make for an interesting article.

[lhg]

Post by Scott Marshall

Post by don freeman
When Newsweek called Bob Dylan the most influential cultural figure now
alive they asked rhetorically, who else. Someone on the tv discussion
about the Dylan article pointed out that you have to watch out about the
meaning of influential cultural figures or you could come up with Arnold
Schwarzenegger. I'm wondering about Woody Allen.
Woody Allen has held a unique role in American culture. Starting as a
joke writer, and then a stand-up comic, he evolved into America's finest
film director. A true auteur, he has had total control over his films,
which have ranged from slaptsick silliness to deep metaphysical drama.
Like Bob Dylan, Woody Allen has plenty of detractors, and both Woody and
Dylan work in cultural areas that don't usually result in Nobel Prizes
for literature. Like Bob Dylan in the 80s, Woody is in a real slump
right now, and many assume he won't recover his artistic powers. It's
easy to forget that Woody made Sweet and Lowdown, his last great film,
only five years ago.
Last night I was watching Annie Hall, thanks to its new status as a $10
DVD. I came upon the Bob Dylan scene that I had forgotten about. Woody
is having problems with Annie so he takes his friend's advice and goes
out on a date with a music critic for Rolling Stone, played by Shelly
Duvall. This date consists of going to see some fake Maharishi type
character, and Shelly is all agog, talking to Woody about all her heavy
pop cultural experiences. For the epitomy of pop culture depth, she
quotes the chorus of Just Like a Woman, including the aside, "yes she
does," and Woody just looks blank. It's interesting how easy it is to
take great pop lyrics and make them sound banal.
Woody continues his diatribe against rock music with a joke about Alice
Cooper.In the next scene, when he finds out Annie has gone to a rock
concert, he asks her if it achieved total heavy-ocity. And in an
ultimate assault against rock music, Woody casts Paul Simon as a slime
ball record producer, a performance which sort of ended Simon's acting
career.
Woody obviously has a great love of music. We can see that in his
soundtracks, and in the musical subt-hemes in many of his movies. In his
last movie, Anything Else, Woody showcases Diana Krall. It seems odd
that such an brilliant cultural force as Woody would be deaf to the best
in rock music. Or is he jealous of Bob Dylan?
And I wonder what Bob Dylan thinks of Woody Allen? Dylan obviously would
like to be a filmmaker, but Masked & Anonymous is not going to win him
any awards. We know Woody does not want to be a rock star.

Although Woody Allen has had great fun poking fun at psychoanalysis,
any resulting wisdom seems hard-fought. Dylan, on the other hand,
seems to be dismissive of Freud and the field in general.
They both have covered quite a bit of metaphysical ground (as you
point out), with Allen being more wary (to say the least) of God's
existence.
Maybe you saw this, but in the first chapter of Chronicles Dylan
namechecks Allen when sharing his memory of the marquee performers who
would "command the stage" during the evening gigs at Cafe Wha?.
And hey, Sweet and Lowdown featured the Chronicles audio guy! Has
Diana Krall covered a Dylan song?
I'm thinking someone's written an article on Dylan & Allen. If not,
it seems it could make for an interesting article.

It is a complete waste of time to refute some of the posts in this
thread that call Woody Allen a mediocre artist, or boring. Or to say
they don't like his work because he is a pedophile. That is for the
tabloids and anyone who thinks it isn't isn't smart enough to know
better.

The movie that nobody mentioned, and the one that is Woody's
masterpiece is Crimes and Misdemeanors. This movie has it all and was
an incredbile piece of movie making. Husbands and Wives was equally
as visionary. The thing that is most evident when comparing these two
great artists is that they are both extremely prolific, and they both
have missed the mark ocassionally. Dylan has some duds and so does
Woody. No artist that puts out as much as they do can achive
greatness everytime. They love their work, I'm confident much more
than the people who criticize it love their own. As for Woody
professing to be a musician, he explicity says in all his interviews
that he has no musical talent whatsoever, that he does it purely for
love. What's wrong with that jerky? Anyone who finds fault in that
has probably never reached for the unattainable.

[J Buck]

Also liked the movie with Bette Midler and Dennis Farina...can't recall
the name
---'Scenes From A Mall' maybe? Not even sure if he directed it...

[don freeman]

Post by J Buck
Also liked the movie with Bette Midler and Dennis Farina...can't recall
the name
---'Scenes From A Mall' maybe? Not even sure if he directed it...

You know, j buck, if you didn't exist, someone would have to invent you.

[J Buck]

Don Freeman wrote:
<Also liked the movie with Bette Midler and Dennis Farina...can't recall
the name
---'Scenes From A Mall' maybe? Not even sure if he directed it...>

<You know, j buck, if you didn't exist, someone would have to invent
you>

Thanks for the compliment. I'll dispense with the :) 'cos I know how
much it irritates you.

[J Buck]

<Also liked the movie with Bette Midler and Dennis Farina...can't recall
the name
---'Scenes From A Mall' maybe? Not even sure if he directed it...>

After a quick trip to imdb.com I have to make a couple corrections. The
Midler/Farina flick is 'That Old Feeling' and Allen didn't direct
'Scenes From A Mall'; it was Paul Mazursky.

[devorahmuse]

Post by don freeman
Woody obviously has a great love of music. We can see that in his
soundtracks, and in the musical subt-hemes in many of his movies. In his
last movie, Anything Else, Woody showcases Diana Krall. It seems odd
that such an brilliant cultural force as Woody would be deaf to the best
in rock music. Or is he jealous of Bob Dylan?
And I wonder what Bob Dylan thinks of Woody Allen? Dylan obviously would
like to be a filmmaker, but Masked & Anonymous is not going to win him
any awards. We know Woody does not want to be a rock star.

Yes he does love music but Woody's passion is Jazz all the way. Kind
of reminds me of my son who appreciates the lyrical and Dylan etc..but
will always hold his passion to a non verbal form with his Jazz. Funny
coincidence is I just saw Annie Hall on PBS last week. synch!
love the muse

[Pete Oppel]

In a message dated 10/8/2004 7:57:01 AM Central Daylight Time,

Post by Warren Barr
'Play it Again, Sam' has one of my all time favorite scenes in a Woody
Allen film.

I am one of those who don't count "Play It Again, Sam" as a Woody Allen film
since I believe a film's ownership goes to its director. Allen wrote "Sam,"
but did not direct it.

[Michael Jones]

Post by Pete Oppel
In a message dated 10/8/2004 7:57:01 AM Central Daylight Time,

Post by Warren Barr
'Play it Again, Sam' has one of my all time favorite scenes in a Woody
Allen film.

I am one of those who don't count "Play It Again, Sam" as a Woody Allen film
since I believe a film's ownership goes to its director. Allen wrote "Sam,"
but did not direct it.

Woody Allen wrote the original play that it is based on, he wrote the
screenplay, and he stars in the film and you say that it's a Herbert Ross
movie?

[John Howells]

"Michael Jones" <***@tesco.net> writes:

<"Pete Oppel" <***@aol.com> wrote in message
<news:***@aol.com...
<> In a message dated 10/8/2004 7:57:01 AM Central Daylight Time,
<> ***@hotmail.com writes:
<>
<> > 'Play it Again, Sam' has one of my all time favorite scenes in a Woody
<> > Allen film.
<>
<> I am one of those who don't count "Play It Again, Sam" as a Woody Allen
<film
<> since I believe a film's ownership goes to its director. Allen wrote
<"Sam,"
<> but did not direct it.

<Woody Allen wrote the original play that it is based on, he wrote the
<screenplay, and he stars in the film and you say that it's a Herbert Ross
<movie?

He also wrote the screenplay to "What's New, Pussycat" and appears in
it. Would you say that's a Woody Allen film?

[Nate Smith]

Post by John Howells
<Woody Allen wrote the original play that it is based on, he wrote the
<screenplay, and he stars in the film and you say that it's a Herbert Ross
<movie?
He also wrote the screenplay to "What's New, Pussycat" and appears in
it. Would you say that's a Woody Allen film?

;-)
but woody wasnt the star - that was a Peter O'Toole movie.
admittedly Playboy had some innarestin photos of woody allen
and Paula Prentiss & an imagined floor lamp.

peter sellers must have had some input for his lines.


- nate

[Michael Jones]

Post by John Howells
<> In a message dated 10/8/2004 7:57:01 AM Central Daylight Time,
<>
<> > 'Play it Again, Sam' has one of my all time favorite scenes in a Woody
<> > Allen film.
<>
<> I am one of those who don't count "Play It Again, Sam" as a Woody Allen
<film
<"Sam,"
<> but did not direct it.
<Woody Allen wrote the original play that it is based on, he wrote the
<screenplay, and he stars in the film and you say that it's a Herbert Ross
<movie?
He also wrote the screenplay to "What's New, Pussycat" and appears in
it. Would you say that's a Woody Allen film?

No, there is a very clear difference. The genesis of "Play It Again, Sam"
was the Woody Allen play. So the original concept, structure and plot of the
piece came from Woody, not just the script. He stars in the film, which also
features most of his actors of choice from this period (Diane Keaton, Tony
Roberts, etc.) together with many concerns that are typical of his work at
this time. What did Herbert Ross bring to the Party? Not too much as I can
see.

What's New, Pussycat is a fairly ordinary comic caper of the period, with
very little connection to Woody Allen's other work.

[Tricia J]

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 00:33:18 GMT, "Michael Jones"

Post by Michael Jones

Post by John Howells
<Woody Allen wrote the original play that it is based on, he wrote the
<screenplay, and he stars in the film and you say that it's a Herbert Ross
<movie?
He also wrote the screenplay to "What's New, Pussycat" and appears in
it. Would you say that's a Woody Allen film?

No, there is a very clear difference. The genesis of "Play It Again, Sam"
was the Woody Allen play. So the original concept, structure and plot of the
piece came from Woody, not just the script. He stars in the film, which also
features most of his actors of choice from this period (Diane Keaton, Tony
Roberts, etc.) together with many concerns that are typical of his work at
this time. What did Herbert Ross bring to the Party? Not too much as I can
see.
What's New, Pussycat is a fairly ordinary comic caper of the period, with
very little connection to Woody Allen's other work.

That's right, which is why, although perhaps incorrectly, I think most
people would think of 'Play It Again, Sam' as a "Woody Allen film".

However, I still don't get why people are comparing Woody and Dylan?
Must everything be reduced to some sort of horserace?

[Nate Smith]

Post by Tricia J
However, I still don't get why people are comparing Woody and Dylan?
Must everything be reduced to some sort of horserace?

;-)
"Donovan! He's our next target!"



- nate

[John Howells]

"Michael Jones" <***@tesco.net> writes:

<"John Howells" <***@punkhart.com> wrote in message
<news:OwG9d.14916$***@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net...
<> "Michael Jones" <***@tesco.net> writes:
<>
<> <"Pete Oppel" <***@aol.com> wrote in message
<> <news:***@aol.com...
<> <> In a message dated 10/8/2004 7:57:01 AM Central Daylight Time,
<> <> ***@hotmail.com writes:
<> <>
<> <> > 'Play it Again, Sam' has one of my all time favorite scenes in a
<Woody
<> <> > Allen film.
<> <>
<> <> I am one of those who don't count "Play It Again, Sam" as a Woody Allen
<> <film
<> <> since I believe a film's ownership goes to its director. Allen wrote
<> <"Sam,"
<> <> but did not direct it.
<>
<> <Woody Allen wrote the original play that it is based on, he wrote the
<> <screenplay, and he stars in the film and you say that it's a Herbert Ross
<> <movie?
<>
<> He also wrote the screenplay to "What's New, Pussycat" and appears in
<> it. Would you say that's a Woody Allen film?
<>
<No, there is a very clear difference. The genesis of "Play It Again, Sam"
<was the Woody Allen play. So the original concept, structure and plot of the
<piece came from Woody, not just the script. He stars in the film, which also
<features most of his actors of choice from this period (Diane Keaton, Tony
<Roberts, etc.) together with many concerns that are typical of his work at
<this time. What did Herbert Ross bring to the Party? Not too much as I can
<see.

You have to ask yourself, why didn't Woody Allen direct this film
himself then? Probably because he felt another director would do a
better job.

[Pete Oppel]

In a message dated 10/8/2004 3:02:14 PM Central Daylight Time,

Post by Michael Jones
Woody Allen wrote the original play that it is based on, he wrote the

Post by John Howells
<screenplay, and he stars in the film and you say that it's a Herbert Ross
<movie?
He also wrote the screenplay to "What's New, Pussycat" and appears in
it. Would you say that's a Woody Allen film?

He also largely wrote and appeared in "Casino Royale" and I would not call
that a "Woody Allen film" either. None of these three films can correctly be
called "a Woody Allen film."

[don freeman]

Post by Pete Oppel
He also largely wrote and appeared in "Casino Royale" and I would not call
that a "Woody Allen film" either.

Casino Royale is a fine Woody Allen film. The scenes with Woody are
the best things in the movie. Besides, what else would you call Casino
Royale, a John Huston film? No one knows who really directed the movie,
anyway.

[Warren Barr]

In 'Play it Again, Sam', he was basically playing the same type of
character as he did in 'Manhattan', 'Annie Hall', etc. so it just seems
like a Woody Allen film.

Warren

[Pete Oppel]

Post by Michael Jones
Woody Allen wrote the original play that it is based on, he wrote the

Post by John Howells
<screenplay, and he stars in the film and you say that it's a Herbert Ross
<movie?

I never said that. I said it's incorrect to call "Play It Again, Sam" a
"Woody Allen film."

[Michael Jones]

Post by Pete Oppel

Post by Michael Jones
Woody Allen wrote the original play that it is based on, he wrote the

Post by John Howells
<screenplay, and he stars in the film and you say that it's a Herbert Ross
<movie?

I never said that. I said it's incorrect to call "Play It Again, Sam" a
"Woody Allen film."

But you did say "I am one of those who don't count "Play It Again, Sam" as a
Woody Allen film since I believe a film's ownership goes to its director."
So that would make it a Herbert Ross (the director) movie then?

[dino]

Post by Pete Oppel

Post by Michael Jones
Woody Allen wrote the original play that it is based on, he wrote the

Post by John Howells
<screenplay, and he stars in the film and you say that it's a
Herbert Ross <movie?

I never said that. I said it's incorrect to call "Play It Again, Sam"
a "Woody Allen film."

Ahh, but tell us, *is* "Play It Again, Sam" a Herbert Ross film, Pete?

[dino]

Post by dino

Post by Pete Oppel

Post by Michael Jones
Woody Allen wrote the original play that it is based on, he wrote the

Post by John Howells
<screenplay, and he stars in the film and you say that it's a
Herbert Ross <movie?

I never said that. I said it's incorrect to call "Play It Again, Sam"
a "Woody Allen film."

Ahh, but tell us, *is* "Play It Again, Sam" a Herbert Ross film, Pete?

no answer I see... heh heh.

[Pete Oppel]

In a message dated 10/9/2004 3:23:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
***@nospam.shaw.ca writes:

Casino Royale is a fine Woody Allen film.


And "Rocky" is a great Sylvester Stallone film.

=========================================================
"Wouldn't this be a great world if insecurity and desperation made us more
attractive--if needy were a turn-on?"
--Aaron Altman (Albert Brooks), "Broadcast News"