Affirmation and Negation in Bob Dylan's Music

[Just Walkin']

Maybe it's the times, but after re-listening to much of Bob's canon,
it occurred to me that his music can be grouped into two basic
categories: those songs that critique our society, culture or
conventions, and that music that uplifts and reaffirms the positive
qualities of our species.

Though his initial fame came primarily as a result of his mastery of
the negation, that is the critical polemic against those things Bob
saw that were wrong, I believe that his greatest living value lies
within those works that affirmed our humanity and uplifted the
listener as people and fellow beings. These competing tendencies were
apparent on his first two albums but were subsequently prioritized
based on market appeal at the time.

In this way, we can easily say that his songs such as Masters of War,
Blowin' In the Wind, The Times They are A-Changin', and the overt
polemic he waged early in his career and the songs from BIABH and H61R
that project the same critique but veiled in allegory, are, basically,
of the same type, the validity of which has been time-stamped by the
historical epoch within which they were composed and not, in and of
themselves, of any great value to our species, outside of the
contextual set of those specific historical circumstances that
precipitated their value or emergence. In a world without war, what
good is an anti-war song?

On the other hand, it wasn't until JWH and the basement tapes did Bob
return to the earlier form, the music of affirmation, by which, as Bob
had famously said earlier about Woody Guthrie's music, you can learn
to live by. In this way, we can easily see how these two conflicting
roles developed, his awareness of them as they developed, and even how
and at what times he transits from one form to the other.

As a result, I have gained new respect and admiration for the songs of
John Wesley Harding and an ability to see where Bob reaches for
inspiration in his latter day compositions. Hence I can only conclude
that JWH is one of the most underrated albums of all time and stands
alone its greatness among his other great works. One day we will have
a better more equitable society in which Bob's music of affirmation
has become a living part of our culture while his negations, diatribes
and polemics (be them of war, racism, or even Andy Warhol) become
curious scourgeful relics of the past.

Anyone else feel this way?

[Rodger Gendrin]

Most interesting analysis, well said, nicely written. For me, I'm trying to
get away from black vs. white, good vs. bad, affirm vs. negate kinds of ways
of looking at the songs, at art (and life) in general.

A lot of Bob's genius to me comes in the gray areas, in the paradoxes, in
the zones that straddle affirmation and negation. The Hindus don't seem to
have a problem embracing paradox. We in the West generally do. We want
things to be this way or that way, and certainly there are times when you
must be either on the bus or off the bus. But so much of what underlies the
mystery of life is in the shadows and shades. At least that's what occurred
to me as I read your post

Post by Just Walkin'
Maybe it's the times, but after re-listening to much of Bob's canon,
it occurred to me that his music can be grouped into two basic
categories: those songs that critique our society, culture or
conventions, and that music that uplifts and reaffirms the positive
qualities of our species.
Though his initial fame came primarily as a result of his mastery of
the negation, that is the critical polemic against those things Bob
saw that were wrong, I believe that his greatest living value lies
within those works that affirmed our humanity and uplifted the
listener as people and fellow beings. These competing tendencies were
apparent on his first two albums but were subsequently prioritized
based on market appeal at the time.
In this way, we can easily say that his songs such as Masters of War,
Blowin' In the Wind, The Times They are A-Changin', and the overt
polemic he waged early in his career and the songs from BIABH and H61R
that project the same critique but veiled in allegory, are, basically,
of the same type, the validity of which has been time-stamped by the
historical epoch within which they were composed and not, in and of
themselves, of any great value to our species, outside of the
contextual set of those specific historical circumstances that
precipitated their value or emergence. In a world without war, what
good is an anti-war song?
On the other hand, it wasn't until JWH and the basement tapes did Bob
return to the earlier form, the music of affirmation, by which, as Bob
had famously said earlier about Woody Guthrie's music, you can learn
to live by. In this way, we can easily see how these two conflicting
roles developed, his awareness of them as they developed, and even how
and at what times he transits from one form to the other.
As a result, I have gained new respect and admiration for the songs of
John Wesley Harding and an ability to see where Bob reaches for
inspiration in his latter day compositions. Hence I can only conclude
that JWH is one of the most underrated albums of all time and stands
alone its greatness among his other great works. One day we will have
a better more equitable society in which Bob's music of affirmation
has become a living part of our culture while his negations, diatribes
and polemics (be them of war, racism, or even Andy Warhol) become
curious scourgeful relics of the past.
Anyone else feel this way?

[Tif -Taf]

Rodger, your response is also quite interesting and I am going to
extend now the discourse, extend it beyond Bob's songs per se, extend
it to human life now lived on earth.

On the horizontal level of social existence, life and earth now call
on us to make some solidly good right choices, we are on the edge of
the abyss. Making good choices starts at the level of intention.
Affirming to self that one desires to set on a personal quest for
goodness for all, will set the wheel into motion at the level it needs
to be reseted. It's a huge wheel and it will take some time for it to
complete the cycle, but at least it is possible to reset it in motion
towards the good, not the bad. Intention is one's stating to a
compass the direction one wishes to go toward, and having the compass
begin to point the way on a regular basis.

The Universe hears. So does the Earth. And so does Man and
Woman ....most of the time ;-)

Regarding the paradoxes, these are among the elements in life that
allow us to move vertically, climb the steps of the soul so to speak,
while residing in a physical human body. Life is a paradox, a series
of them actually, but if you establish your intention (your
foundation) well, if you desire is to build a foundation of goodness,
then you get a greater chance to encounter paradoxes that will be good
to you and lead you to the rejoicing. allow you to evolve in such a
direction. However, when one's intent is to hurt, the paradoxes that
life will present you with, will stink.
At no other time has it been so obvious that man has the power to
creates his reality. Make it kind is great advice.

b' shalom,
tif.

Post by Rodger Gendrin
Most interesting analysis, well said, nicely written. For me, I'm trying to
get away from black vs. white, good vs. bad, affirm vs. negate kinds of ways
of looking at the songs, at art (and life) in general.
A lot of Bob's genius to me comes in the gray areas, in the paradoxes, in
the zones that straddle affirmation and negation. The Hindus don't seem to
have a problem embracing paradox. We in the West generally do. We want
things to be this way or that way, and certainly there are times when you
must be either on the bus or off the bus. But so much of what underlies the
mystery of life is in the shadows and shades. At least that's what occurred
to me as I read your post

Post by Just Walkin'
Maybe it's the times, but after re-listening to much of Bob's canon,
it occurred to me that his music can be grouped into two basic
categories: those songs that critique our society, culture or
conventions, and that music that uplifts and reaffirms the positive
qualities of our species.
Though his initial fame came primarily as a result of his mastery of
the negation, that is the critical polemic against those things Bob
saw that were wrong, I believe that his greatest living value lies
within those works that affirmed our humanity and uplifted the
listener as people and fellow beings. These competing tendencies were
apparent on his first two albums but were subsequently prioritized
based on market appeal at the time.
In this way, we can easily say that his songs such as Masters of War,
Blowin' In the Wind, The Times They are A-Changin', and the overt
polemic he waged early in his career and the songs from BIABH and H61R
that project the same critique but veiled in allegory, are, basically,
of the same type, the validity of which has been time-stamped by the
historical epoch within which they were composed and not, in and of
themselves, of any great value to our species, outside of the
contextual set of those specific historical circumstances that
precipitated their value or emergence. In a world without war, what
good is an anti-war song?
On the other hand, it wasn't until JWH and the basement tapes did Bob
return to the earlier form, the music of affirmation, by which, as Bob
had famously said earlier about Woody Guthrie's music, you can learn
to live by. In this way, we can easily see how these two conflicting
roles developed, his awareness of them as they developed, and even how
and at what times he transits from one form to the other.
As a result, I have gained new respect and admiration for the songs of
John Wesley Harding and an ability to see where Bob reaches for
inspiration in his latter day compositions. Hence I can only conclude
that JWH is one of the most underrated albums of all time and stands
alone its greatness among his other great works. One day we will have
a better more equitable society in which Bob's music of affirmation
has become a living part of our culture while his negations, diatribes
and polemics (be them of war, racism, or even Andy Warhol) become
curious scourgeful relics of the past.
Anyone else feel this way?

[Rodger Gendrin]

Shalom and thanks for the thoughts.
There is no other way to live on a personal level than to try to push
intentionality in a good direction, with the hope that the big wheel, as you
say, will get a little nudge in the right direction. That said, who is
really to say that there won't be all kinds of unintended consequences and
that the best intenions won't spoil the party. Descartes tried to come to
grips with every little thing and get to the absolute truth. In the end he
went crazy because he realized he really didn't know very much after all. It
seems to me we are going in every direction at once -- good, bad, and in
between -- and probably always have. We have Hitler and Gandhi, all at the
same time, Joan Baez and Bush, all at the same time. Tryin' to get the
Heaven before they close the door ain't a bad way to go.
"Tif -Taf" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:436aa128-5b77-4fe8-b87e-***@c19g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Rodger, your response is also quite interesting and I am going to
extend now the discourse, extend it beyond Bob's songs per se, extend
it to human life now lived on earth.

On the horizontal level of social existence, life and earth now call
on us to make some solidly good right choices, we are on the edge of
the abyss. Making good choices starts at the level of intention.
Affirming to self that one desires to set on a personal quest for
goodness for all, will set the wheel into motion at the level it needs
to be reseted. It's a huge wheel and it will take some time for it to
complete the cycle, but at least it is possible to reset it in motion
towards the good, not the bad. Intention is one's stating to a
compass the direction one wishes to go toward, and having the compass
begin to point the way on a regular basis.

The Universe hears. So does the Earth. And so does Man and
Woman ....most of the time ;-)

Regarding the paradoxes, these are among the elements in life that
allow us to move vertically, climb the steps of the soul so to speak,
while residing in a physical human body. Life is a paradox, a series
of them actually, but if you establish your intention (your
foundation) well, if you desire is to build a foundation of goodness,
then you get a greater chance to encounter paradoxes that will be good
to you and lead you to the rejoicing. allow you to evolve in such a
direction. However, when one's intent is to hurt, the paradoxes that
life will present you with, will stink.
At no other time has it been so obvious that man has the power to
creates his reality. Make it kind is great advice.

b' shalom,
tif.

Post by Rodger Gendrin
Most interesting analysis, well said, nicely written. For me, I'm trying to
get away from black vs. white, good vs. bad, affirm vs. negate kinds of ways
of looking at the songs, at art (and life) in general.
A lot of Bob's genius to me comes in the gray areas, in the paradoxes, in
the zones that straddle affirmation and negation. The Hindus don't seem to
have a problem embracing paradox. We in the West generally do. We want
things to be this way or that way, and certainly there are times when you
must be either on the bus or off the bus. But so much of what underlies the
mystery of life is in the shadows and shades. At least that's what occurred
to me as I read your post

Post by Just Walkin'
Maybe it's the times, but after re-listening to much of Bob's canon,
it occurred to me that his music can be grouped into two basic
categories: those songs that critique our society, culture or
conventions, and that music that uplifts and reaffirms the positive
qualities of our species.
Though his initial fame came primarily as a result of his mastery of
the negation, that is the critical polemic against those things Bob
saw that were wrong, I believe that his greatest living value lies
within those works that affirmed our humanity and uplifted the
listener as people and fellow beings. These competing tendencies were
apparent on his first two albums but were subsequently prioritized
based on market appeal at the time.
In this way, we can easily say that his songs such as Masters of War,
Blowin' In the Wind, The Times They are A-Changin', and the overt
polemic he waged early in his career and the songs from BIABH and H61R
that project the same critique but veiled in allegory, are, basically,
of the same type, the validity of which has been time-stamped by the
historical epoch within which they were composed and not, in and of
themselves, of any great value to our species, outside of the
contextual set of those specific historical circumstances that
precipitated their value or emergence. In a world without war, what
good is an anti-war song?
On the other hand, it wasn't until JWH and the basement tapes did Bob
return to the earlier form, the music of affirmation, by which, as Bob
had famously said earlier about Woody Guthrie's music, you can learn
to live by. In this way, we can easily see how these two conflicting
roles developed, his awareness of them as they developed, and even how
and at what times he transits from one form to the other.
As a result, I have gained new respect and admiration for the songs of
John Wesley Harding and an ability to see where Bob reaches for
inspiration in his latter day compositions. Hence I can only conclude
that JWH is one of the most underrated albums of all time and stands
alone its greatness among his other great works. One day we will have
a better more equitable society in which Bob's music of affirmation
has become a living part of our culture while his negations, diatribes
and polemics (be them of war, racism, or even Andy Warhol) become
curious scourgeful relics of the past.
Anyone else feel this way?

[Tif -Taf]

Yes. I do feel that way. Because "music that uplifts and reaffirms the
positive qualities of our species" was and still is the clearest way
to go. That there has been a recent outpouring of such music by many,
simply makes for a great rejoicing.

I still have to buy JWF but now I know I will, for music of
affirmation to live by is something I often covet, quietly and also
openly. That the call for positivity gets highlighted in the order
(seder ) of the Passover and in the song of its turtledove in spring,
is not surprising to me. Because positivity is a solid bridge on which
to walk through and out the bloody red sea.

tif.

Post by Just Walkin'
Maybe it's the times, but after re-listening to much of Bob's canon,
it occurred to me that his music can be grouped into two basic
categories: those songs that critique our society, culture or
conventions, and that music that uplifts and reaffirms the positive
qualities of our species.
Though his initial fame came primarily as a result of his mastery of
the negation, that is the critical polemic against those things Bob
saw that were wrong, I believe that his greatest living value lies
within those works that affirmed our humanity and uplifted the
listener as people and fellow beings. These competing tendencies were
apparent on his first two albums but were subsequently prioritized
based on market appeal at the time.
In this way, we can easily say that his songs such as Masters of War,
Blowin' In the Wind, The Times They are A-Changin', and the overt
polemic he waged early in his career and the songs from BIABH and H61R
that project the same critique but veiled in allegory, are, basically,
of the same type, the validity of which has been time-stamped by the
historical epoch within which they were composed and not, in and of
themselves, of any great value to our species, outside of the
contextual set of those specific historical circumstances that
precipitated their value or emergence. In a world without war, what
good is an anti-war song?
On the other hand, it wasn't until JWH and the basement tapes did Bob
return to the earlier form, the music of affirmation, by which, as Bob
had famously said earlier about Woody Guthrie's music, you can learn
to live by. In this way, we can easily see how these two conflicting
roles developed, his awareness of them as they developed, and even how
and at what times he transits from one form to the other.
As a result, I have gained new respect and admiration for the songs of
John Wesley Harding and an ability to see where Bob reaches for
inspiration in his latter day compositions. Hence I can only conclude
that JWH is one of the most underrated albums of all time and stands
alone its greatness among his other great works. One day we will have
a better more equitable society in which Bob's music of affirmation
has become a living part of our culture while his negations, diatribes
and polemics (be them of war, racism, or even Andy Warhol) become
curious scourgeful relics of the past.
Anyone else feel this way?

[really real]

Today I was listening to When the Ship Comes in, from some 1963 concert.
I've forgotten where I originally got it, and the song has a vinyl click
noise for a few bars. Anyway, it's a fine, spirited recording, and Bob
seems to revel in the impending doom of the bad guys. I love that line
about how they'll pinch themselves and squeal.

But despite this song being an obvious Negation song, it sure is full of
affirmation. Has Bob ever sung a more joyous protest song?

Post by Just Walkin'
Maybe it's the times, but after re-listening to much of Bob's canon,
it occurred to me that his music can be grouped into two basic
categories: those songs that critique our society, culture or
conventions, and that music that uplifts and reaffirms the positive
qualities of our species.
Though his initial fame came primarily as a result of his mastery of
the negation, that is the critical polemic against those things Bob
saw that were wrong, I believe that his greatest living value lies
within those works that affirmed our humanity and uplifted the
listener as people and fellow beings. These competing tendencies were
apparent on his first two albums but were subsequently prioritized
based on market appeal at the time.
In this way, we can easily say that his songs such as Masters of War,
Blowin' In the Wind, The Times They are A-Changin', and the overt
polemic he waged early in his career and the songs from BIABH and H61R
that project the same critique but veiled in allegory, are, basically,
of the same type, the validity of which has been time-stamped by the
historical epoch within which they were composed and not, in and of
themselves, of any great value to our species, outside of the
contextual set of those specific historical circumstances that
precipitated their value or emergence. In a world without war, what
good is an anti-war song?
On the other hand, it wasn't until JWH and the basement tapes did Bob
return to the earlier form, the music of affirmation, by which, as Bob
had famously said earlier about Woody Guthrie's music, you can learn
to live by. In this way, we can easily see how these two conflicting
roles developed, his awareness of them as they developed, and even how
and at what times he transits from one form to the other.
As a result, I have gained new respect and admiration for the songs of
John Wesley Harding and an ability to see where Bob reaches for
inspiration in his latter day compositions. Hence I can only conclude
that JWH is one of the most underrated albums of all time and stands
alone its greatness among his other great works. One day we will have
a better more equitable society in which Bob's music of affirmation
has become a living part of our culture while his negations, diatribes
and polemics (be them of war, racism, or even Andy Warhol) become
curious scourgeful relics of the past.
Anyone else feel this way?

[Donald Davison]

Post by really real
Today I was listening to When the Ship Comes in, from some 1963 concert.
I've forgotten where I originally got it, and the song has a vinyl click
noise for a few bars. Anyway, it's a fine, spirited recording, and Bob
seems to revel in the impending doom of the bad guys. I love that line
about how they'll pinch themselves and squeal.
But despite this song being an obvious Negation song, it sure is full of
affirmation. Has Bob ever sung a more joyous protest song?

It is joyous, even fun, which is not all that surprising in a song that is
celebrating a new world where even the fishes will laugh and the seagulls
will be smiling. What is a bit more surprising, and what makes me doubt how
far the affirmation/negation approach will extend, is the uplifting effect
that a song like "Like a Rolling Stone" has. Look at the lyrics and it is
negative, a personal put-down; listen to it and it is exhilarating. It ends
up as a celebration. Has Bob ever sung an "affirming" song that is,
fundamentally, as much of an affirmation as this "negative" one?

[Just Walkin']

Post by Donald Davison

Post by really real
Today I was listening to When the Ship Comes in, from some 1963 concert.
I've forgotten where I originally got it, and the song has a vinyl click
noise for a few bars. Anyway, it's a fine, spirited recording, and Bob
seems to revel in the impending doom of the bad guys. I love that line
about how they'll pinch themselves and squeal.
But despite this song being an obvious Negation song, it sure is full of
affirmation. Has Bob ever sung a more joyous protest song?

It is joyous, even fun, which is not all that surprising in a song that is
celebrating a new world where even the fishes will laugh and the seagulls
will be smiling. What is a bit more surprising, and what makes me doubt how
far the affirmation/negation approach will extend, is the uplifting effect
that a song like "Like a Rolling Stone" has. Look at the lyrics and it is
negative, a personal put-down; listen to it and it is exhilarating. It ends
up as a celebration. Has Bob ever sung an "affirming" song that is,
fundamentally, as much of an affirmation as this "negative" one?

LARS' exultation is far from the kind of affirmation I was referring
to. Joyously vanquishing the object of one's ire, even in words, is
not an affirmation of one's life. We see in JWH, NS, NM, PW and the
basement tapes songs that celebrate life and pass on to new
generations lessons on its living. Interesting that BOTT, Bob's return
to diatribe, was hailed at the time as Bob's return to the fold, that
is, the form of negation that he became so famous for. But it was a
capitulation, not an advance in substance. The next period we see Bob
doing anything comparably affirmative isn't until his gospel years,
when he discovered, in the African- American church, a song form that
simultaneously railed against injustice and, at the same time,
glorified one's own humanity, giving hope, however hokey, in a better
tomorrow. These songs, not songs like LARS, embody both of the aspects
you referred to.

[Donald Davison]

Post by Just Walkin'
LARS' exultation is far from the kind of affirmation I was referring
to. Joyously vanquishing the object of one's ire, even in words, is
not an affirmation of one's life.

I don't doubt it's far from what you were referring to. Nevertheless, I hear
(as opposed to read) a lot more in LARS than "Joyously vanquishing the
object of one's ire". I know that is where it starts from and what the words
read like, but I hear in the song (eventually) a triumphant celebration of
honesty, of the end of deception, of having no more secrets to conceal, of
being stripped bare. Miss Lonely may be brought very reluctantly to this
state, but it's where she ends up -- along with the singer. Isn't that part
of the response the song gets from people? When people enter so
whole-heartedly into it (as they do), are they responding only to a
destructive urge? Are they just signing up to be on the side that's winning
(Bob) and trampling on the side that's losing (Miss Lonely)? I think the
appeal of the song is more complex than that.

[really real]

Post by Donald Davison
I don't doubt it's far from what you were referring to. Nevertheless, I
hear (as opposed to read) a lot more in LARS than "Joyously vanquishing
the object of one's ire". I know that is where it starts from and what
the words read like, but I hear in the song (eventually) a triumphant
celebration of honesty, of the end of deception, of having no more
secrets to conceal, of being stripped bare. Miss Lonely may be brought
very reluctantly to this state, but it's where she ends up -- along with
the singer. Isn't that part of the response the song gets from people?
When people enter so whole-heartedly into it (as they do), are they
responding only to a destructive urge? Are they just signing up to be on
the side that's winning (Bob) and trampling on the side that's losing
(Miss Lonely)? I think the appeal of the song is more complex than that.

I agree LARS is wonderfully joyous sounding. Perhaps it's also the joy
in creating a new genre, and making a new song that was going to change
popular radio, and eventually, the world.

[Donald Davison]

I agree LARS is wonderfully joyous sounding. Perhaps it's also the joy in
creating a new genre, and making a new song that was going to change
popular radio, and eventually, the world.

Absolutely: the joy of creation.

The affirmation/negation idea reminds me of something in "Song and Dance
Man" which at the time I found extremely helpful in trying to understand
Bob. I don't own the book and don't have the exact quote at hand, but as I
recall, it was along the lines of Bob's abiding theme being staying sane in
a crazy world, or staying human in an inhuman world, or something like that.
I'm sure other people here have the exact words -- in which case I hope I
haven't mangled them too much.

What seems like negation in one song might be just focusing on the "inhuman
world" part of the theme; what seems like affirmation in another might be
focusing on the "staying human" part. There are probably songs that are
entirely affirmative without giving any credit to the inhuman or destructive
context -- maybe there are some on Nashville Skyline -- but they are pretty
rare. Equally it is hard to think of songs that begin and end at the "This
world sucks" level.

These are extremes that his sense of reality keeps him from going to, but he
is always aware of them. So maybe it's the fluctuating tension between
affirmation and negation that is important in a particular song and across
the whole range of songs, rather than identifying a song as belonging to one
or other of these extremes.

[Dave Kelly]

Post by Donald Davison
I don't doubt it's far from what you were referring to. Nevertheless, I
hear (as opposed to read) a lot more in LARS than "Joyously vanquishing
the object of one's ire". I know that is where it starts from and what
the words read like, but I hear in the song (eventually) a triumphant
celebration of honesty, of the end of deception, of having no more
secrets to conceal, of being stripped bare. Miss Lonely may be brought
very reluctantly to this state, but it's where she ends up -- along with
the singer. Isn't that part of the response the song gets from people?
When people enter so whole-heartedly into it (as they do), are they
responding only to a destructive urge? Are they just signing up to be on
the side that's winning (Bob) and trampling on the side that's losing
(Miss Lonely)? I think the appeal of the song is more complex than that.

I agree LARS is wonderfully joyous sounding. Perhaps it's also the joy in
creating a new genre, and making a new song that was going to change
popular radio, and eventually, the world.

[Dave Kelly]

Post by Donald Davison
I don't doubt it's far from what you were referring to. Nevertheless, I
hear (as opposed to read) a lot more in LARS than "Joyously vanquishing
the object of one's ire". I know that is where it starts from and what
the words read like, but I hear in the song (eventually) a triumphant
celebration of honesty, of the end of deception, of having no more
secrets to conceal, of being stripped bare. Miss Lonely may be brought
very reluctantly to this state, but it's where she ends up -- along with
the singer. Isn't that part of the response the song gets from people?
When people enter so whole-heartedly into it (as they do), are they
responding only to a destructive urge? Are they just signing up to be on
the side that's winning (Bob) and trampling on the side that's losing
(Miss Lonely)? I think the appeal of the song is more complex than that.

I agree LARS is wonderfully joyous sounding. Perhaps it's also the joy in
creating a new genre, and making a new song that was going to change
popular radio, and eventually, the world.

[Dave Kelly]

Post by Donald Davison
I don't doubt it's far from what you were referring to. Nevertheless, I
hear (as opposed to read) a lot more in LARS than "Joyously vanquishing
the object of one's ire". I know that is where it starts from and what
the words read like, but I hear in the song (eventually) a triumphant
celebration of honesty, of the end of deception, of having no more
secrets to conceal, of being stripped bare. Miss Lonely may be brought
very reluctantly to this state, but it's where she ends up -- along with
the singer. Isn't that part of the response the song gets from people?
When people enter so whole-heartedly into it (as they do), are they
responding only to a destructive urge? Are they just signing up to be on
the side that's winning (Bob) and trampling on the side that's losing
(Miss Lonely)? I think the appeal of the song is more complex than that.

I agree LARS is wonderfully joyous sounding. Perhaps it's also the joy in
creating a new genre, and making a new song that was going to change
popular radio, and eventually, the world.

[Dave Kelly]

Post by Donald Davison
I don't doubt it's far from what you were referring to. Nevertheless, I
hear (as opposed to read) a lot more in LARS than "Joyously vanquishing
the object of one's ire". I know that is where it starts from and what
the words read like, but I hear in the song (eventually) a triumphant
celebration of honesty, of the end of deception, of having no more
secrets to conceal, of being stripped bare. Miss Lonely may be brought
very reluctantly to this state, but it's where she ends up -- along with
the singer. Isn't that part of the response the song gets from people?
When people enter so whole-heartedly into it (as they do), are they
responding only to a destructive urge? Are they just signing up to be on
the side that's winning (Bob) and trampling on the side that's losing
(Miss Lonely)? I think the appeal of the song is more complex than that.

I agree LARS is wonderfully joyous sounding. Perhaps it's also the joy in
creating a new genre, and making a new song that was going to change
popular radio, and eventually, the world.

[Just Walkin']

Post by Donald Davison
being stripped bare. Miss Lonely may be brought very reluctantly to this
state, but it's where she ends up -- along with the singer. Isn't that part
of the response the song gets from people? When people enter so
whole-heartedly into it (as they do), are they responding only to a
destructive urge? Are they just signing up to be on the side that's winning
(Bob) and trampling on the side that's losing (Miss Lonely)? I think the
appeal of the song is more complex than that.

To me, LARS sounds like a rescue song; the diatribe directed toward
the influences on or attitudes of the party subject to rescue; the
redemption offered only in surviving the outcome offered in the verse.

But whoever the subject, it is certainly not a song about friendship,
or brotherhood, or loverhood. It is a song of warning, of exhortation,
of excision. In that respect, it may have universal value beyond the
political context of the day and beyond the commercial value it has
had in our culture and on music at the time. But, as you correctly
noted, it is far from what I had in mind.

The lesson songs of JWH are offered more as parables than diatribes,
parables that one can learn to live by. You can't learn to live by
LARS, even if it is an example of his new song sensibility in its
nascent form. If JWH sings us the lessons, then LARS sings of the
possible consequences and punishments. Learning to live by one
eliminates the need for the other, in a manner of speaking.

[really real]

Post by Just Walkin'
The lesson songs of JWH are offered more as parables than diatribes,
parables that one can learn to live by. You can't learn to live by
LARS, even if it is an example of his new song sensibility in its
nascent form. If JWH sings us the lessons, then LARS sings of the
possible consequences and punishments. Learning to live by one
eliminates the need for the other, in a manner of speaking.

There's a lot of nasty stuff in JWH. The drifter blows up the
courthouse. Frankie Lee gets messed around by Judas Priest. Deputies get
laid low. People have to feel south.

Are you sure it's not Nashville Skyline that's the life affirming album?

[PrivateCitizen_dudley]

What a thoughtful and well-composed thread thus far.

Far and away the best i've read lately, and there have been some good
ones.

Wish i could add to it, but it surpasses my paltry skills.

}
And hold your judgment for yourself
Lest you wind up on this road.
{

dudley

[Just Walkin']

Post by really real
There's a lot of nasty stuff in JWH. The drifter blows up the
courthouse. Frankie Lee gets messed around by Judas Priest. Deputies get
laid low. People have to feel south.

As in life. But there is a lesson in each song, and therein lies the
affirmation.

Post by really real
Are you sure it's not Nashville Skyline that's the life affirming album?

Same concept, but here Bob takes it down a notch. Like Jack White's
Effect and Cause on Icky Thump, he hits you over the head with it,
just in case you missed it. I Threw It All Away. Really!

But Modern Times is filled with this kind of stuff. Physics lessons
disguised as blues songs.

Here's a neat little exercise: Listen to JWH all the way through. Then
listen to Ain't Talkin. Eerie, ain't it?

I guess we'll never learn...

[really real]

Post by Just Walkin'
As in life. But there is a lesson in each song, and therein lies the
affirmation.

There's a lesson in The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carrol. It's that now
is the time for your tears. But I think you're talking about affirmative
lessons.

I'm not so sure all the JWH lessons are affirmative.


"One should never be Where one does not belong" and "don't go mistaking
Paradise for that home across the road" are negatives. They are sensible
warnings, so maybe it's the common sense lessons you're talking about.

Helping your neighbour with his load is an affirmative lesson, but
that's only one out of three in the self-professed moral of the song.

[Just Walkin']

Post by really real
There's a lesson in The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carrol. It's that now
is the time for your tears. But I think you're talking about affirmative
lessons.

TLDoHC is an expression of man's inhumanity to man (or, gender
neutral, humanity's inhumanity to humanity.)

Post by really real
I'm not so sure all the JWH lessons are affirmative.

Any lesson that reasserts our humanity can be considered affirmative.
Affirmative doesn't mean "feel good" as those who live the "sensuous
life" would like to believe. It also isn't synonymous with positive;
we're not talking Stuart Smalley here...

Post by really real
"One should never be Where one does not belong" and "don't go mistaking
Paradise for that home across the road" are negatives. They are sensible
warnings, so maybe it's the common sense lessons you're talking about.

That their sensibilities are obvious is a great step forward. But how
can a "grass being greener" lesson not be considered affirmative?
Exhortations against greed, in parable form, lead us to ponder the
opposite and hopefully arrive at a truly humane and affirmative
conclusion.

Post by really real
Helping your neighbour with his load is an affirmative lesson, but
that's only one out of three in the self-professed moral of the song.

Indeed it is. But it is expressed as a positive, making it obvious.
Not all affirmations have to be expressed as a positive, just as not
all negations are expressed as a negative. Gleefully exulting in the
desirability of an enemy's doom may be expressed as a positive but is
still a negation, just as describing the effects that mean-
spiritedness may have on its practitioner may be expressed as a
negative but is still an affirmation. I think this was the point that
frinjdwelr was making about LARS.

[Peter Stone Brown]

Post by Just Walkin'
The lesson songs of JWH are offered more as parables than diatribes,
parables that one can learn to live by. You can't learn to live by
LARS, even if it is an example of his new song sensibility in its
nascent form. If JWH sings us the lessons, then LARS sings of the
possible consequences and punishments. Learning to live by one
eliminates the need for the other, in a manner of speaking.

There's a lot of nasty stuff in JWH. The drifter blows up the courthouse.

No he doesn't.

[really real]

Post by Peter Stone Brown

There's a lot of nasty stuff in JWH. The drifter blows up the courthouse.

No he doesn't.

Oh, Peter, you're just to linear to understand this song. Take what you
should have gathered from coincidence. If the drifter hadn't been
arrested in the first place, do you really think the courthouse would
have been struck by lightning anyway?

[Babs]

Post by really real

Post by Peter Stone Brown

There's a lot of nasty stuff in JWH. The drifter blows up the courthouse.

No he doesn't.

Oh, Peter, you're just to linear to understand this song. Take what you
should have gathered from coincidence. If the drifter hadn't been
arrested in the first place, do you really think the courthouse would
have been struck by lightning anyway?

Careful, really real. People might think you're suggesting Divine
intervention.

[really real]

Post by Babs

Oh, Peter, you're just too linear to understand this song. Take what you
should have gathered from coincidence. If the drifter hadn't been
arrested in the first place, do you really think the courthouse would
have been struck by lightning anyway?

Careful, really real. People might think you're suggesting Divine
intervention.

Dylan (I mean,the narrator Dylan created) probably thought it was
Divine intervention. I know, however, that it was a terrorist lightning
bolt sent by the Drifter's friends.

[frinjdwelr]

Post by Just Walkin'

Post by Donald Davison
being stripped bare. Miss Lonely may be brought very reluctantly to this
state, but it's where she ends up -- along with the singer. Isn't that part
of the response the song gets from people? When people enter so
whole-heartedly into it (as they do), are they responding only to a
destructive urge? Are they just signing up to be on the side that's winning
(Bob) and trampling on the side that's losing (Miss Lonely)? I think the
appeal of the song is more complex than that.

To me, LARS sounds like a rescue song; the diatribe directed toward
the influences on or attitudes of the party subject to rescue; the
redemption offered only in surviving the outcome offered in the verse.
But whoever the subject, it is certainly not a song about friendship,
or brotherhood, or loverhood. It is a song of warning, of exhortation,
of excision. In that respect, it may have universal value beyond the
political context of the day and beyond the commercial value it has
had in our culture and on music at the time. But, as you correctly
noted, it is far from what I had in mind.

Yes, it's a redemption song. In that respect it certainly feels like a song
of(not about) brotherhood/community during those singing along encores at
shows. An all inclusive expression of joy, triumph and survival.

Post by Just Walkin'
The lesson songs of JWH are offered more as parables than diatribes,
parables that one can learn to live by. You can't learn to live by
LARS, even if it is an example of his new song sensibility in its
nascent form. If JWH sings us the lessons, then LARS sings of the
possible consequences and punishments. Learning to live by one
eliminates the need for the other, in a manner of speaking.

No way. LARS is as much a parable as anything on JWH. It's just sung from
the inside out. Of course you can learn to live by LARS. You follow your
feelings and instincts rather than over intelectualizing. You're honest,
not hypocritical, humble not vain. etc. etc.

JWH views from a distance and the emotions run cool. LARS is visceral. Both
are of the ages.

Reminds me of James McMurtry's joke on npr.org In the story on record
stores he reads the inscription on his vinyl copy of Bob's first album that
he bought in mono at his local drug store many years ago. As part of the
Columbia tech info it states "In short, you can purchase this record with no
fear of its becoming obsolete."

[Just Walkin']

Post by frinjdwelr
No way. LARS is as much a parable as anything on JWH. It's just sung from
the inside out. Of course you can learn to live by LARS. You follow your
feelings and instincts rather than over intelectualizing. You're honest,
not hypocritical, humble not vain. etc. etc.

Thanks for this insight: "It's just sung from the inside out."

It's also sung in the present, so it's a lesson that is still
unfolding rather than one that has already found resolution and
subsequent encapsulation in the past.

[really real]

Post by Just Walkin'
It's also sung in the present, so it's a lesson that is still
unfolding rather than one that has already found resolution and
subsequent encapsulation in the past.

I've been wondering, Just Walking, if it isn't the affirmation in JWH
you like so much, but something else. I find most of the JWH songs to be
too weird to be successful. They're obscurely preachy. "As I Went Out
One Morning?" That song doesn't go anywhere for me. I like Dear
Landlord, but that's kind of a protest song. For me, the only really
affirmative song is the one that doesn't belong, "I'll Be Your Baby
Tonight."

I find a lot of affirmative joy in the BOTT songs.

[Babs]

Post by really real

Post by Just Walkin'
It's also sung in the present, so it's a lesson that is still
unfolding rather than one that has already found resolution and
subsequent encapsulation in the past.

I've been wondering, Just Walking, if it isn't the affirmation in JWH
you like so much, but something else. I find most of the JWH songs to be
too weird to be successful. They're obscurely preachy. "As I Went Out
One Morning?" That song doesn't go anywhere for me. I like Dear
Landlord, but that's kind of a protest song. For me, the only really
affirmative song is the one that doesn't belong, "I'll Be Your Baby
Tonight."
I find a lot of affirmative joy in the BOTT songs.

[Babs]

On Apr 21, 2:09 pm, really real <***@shaw.ca> wrote:

I find most of the JWH songs to be

Post by really real
too weird to be successful.

Define weird.

[really real]

Post by Babs
Define weird.

As I Went Out One Morning is weird, compared to the way a song i
supposed to sound.

Can you imagine a group of people singing, Kumbaya style,

"As I went out one morning
To breathe the air around Tom Paine
I spied the fairest damsel
That ever did walk in chains"


I mean, that's not what I'd call sing-a-longable.


And believe me, I appreciate a good non-linear Dylan song as much as
anyone, but this business of Tom Paine running around is just way too
precious to be taken seriously. This is not Pulitzer level songwriting.

I feel no resonance for the way the song ends, with the lines:

"I'm sorry, sir," he said to me,
"I'm sorry for what she's done."

Is it me or the song that has the problem? Well, I certainly haven't
heard anything about this song since JWH came out.

[Babs]

Post by really real

Post by Babs
Define weird.

As I Went Out One Morning is weird, compared to the way a song i
supposed to sound.
Can you imagine a group of people singing, Kumbaya style,
"As I went out one morning
To breathe the air around Tom Paine
I spied the fairest damsel
That ever did walk in chains"
I mean, that's not what I'd call sing-a-longable.

Why would I want to hear a group of people singing this Kumbaya style?
Would you want to hear The Gates of Eden sung in this manner?

Post by really real
And believe me, I appreciate a good non-linear Dylan song as much as
anyone, but this business of Tom Paine running around is just way too
precious to be taken seriously. This is not Pulitzer level songwriting.

Dylan was experimenting with writing shorter lines with each line
furthering the story. No "moon, june, soon" type of writing.

Post by really real
"I'm sorry, sir," he said to me,
"I'm sorry for what she's done."

You're entitled.

Post by really real
Is it me or the song that has the problem? Well, I certainly haven't
heard anything about this song since JWH came out.

If you're into this sort of thing, John Wesley Harding reached number
2 on U.S. charts and topped the charts in Britain. It also was
certified gold by the RIAA.

I know many take issue with Greil Marcus, but I am not one of them.
Here's what he has to say:

"I sometimes hear the song as a brief journey into American history;
the singer out for a walk in the park, finding himself next to a
statue of Tom Paine, and stumbling across an allegory: Tom Paine,
symbol of freedom and revolt, co-opted into the role of Patriot by
textbooks and statue committees, and now playing, as befits his role
as Patriot, enforcer to a girl who runs for freedom — in chains, to
the South, the source of vitality in America, in America's music —
away from Tom Paine. We have turned our history on its head; we have
perverted our own myths..."

[Just Walkin']

Post by Babs
I know many take issue with Greil Marcus, but I am not one of them.
"I sometimes hear the song as a brief journey into American history;
the singer out for a walk in the park, finding himself next to a
statue of Tom Paine, and stumbling across an allegory: Tom Paine,
symbol of freedom and revolt, co-opted into the role of Patriot by
textbooks and statue committees, and now playing, as befits his role
as Patriot, enforcer to a girl who runs for freedom — in chains, to
the South, the source of vitality in America, in America's music —
away from Tom Paine. We have turned our history on its head; we have
perverted our own myths..."

Beautiful!

I am so inspired by Bob Dylan that I hope to someday win a Pulitzer
prize writing about Greil Marcus writing about Bob Dylan writing about
Tom Paine...

[really real]

Post by Just Walkin'
I am so inspired by Bob Dylan that I hope to someday win a Pulitzer
prize writing about Greil Marcus writing about Bob Dylan writing about
Tom Paine...

Then chew on this for a minute. What's the difference between the
Lonesome Hobo saying "Live by no man's code" and the Subterranean guy
saying "Don't follow leaders?"

If you want to multiply the smallest matter, then why not write about
yourself writing about Greil Marcus?

[Just Walkin']

Post by really real

Post by Just Walkin'
I am so inspired by Bob Dylan that I hope to someday win a Pulitzer
prize writing about Greil Marcus writing about Bob Dylan writing about
Tom Paine...

Then chew on this for a minute. What's the difference between the
Lonesome Hobo saying "Live by no man's code" and the Subterranean guy
saying "Don't follow leaders?"
If you want to multiply the smallest matter, then why not write about
yourself writing about Greil Marcus?

Already did but found no readers.

Seriously, that was the funniest thing you've written here in a long
time. Took the tongue right out my cheek and planted it firmly in your
own. Yucch!

Thanks for brightening my day!

[Babs]

Post by Just Walkin'
I am so inspired by Bob Dylan that I hope to someday win a Pulitzer
prize writing about Greil Marcus writing about Bob Dylan writing about
Tom Paine...

Perfect! LOL

[really real]

Post by Babs
Why would I want to hear a group of people singing this Kumbaya style?
Would you want to hear The Gates of Eden sung in this manner?

Yes. to me, Gates of Eden has that kind of joyous sound that people
could sing along to.

Post by Babs
I know many take issue with Greil Marcus, but I am not one of them.

Well, sure, Greil is bound to find enough in the song to write a book
about it, if he wants, but that doesn't mean his imput should count for
anything.

Post by Babs
"I sometimes hear the song as a brief journey into American history;
the singer out for a walk in the park, finding himself next to a
statue of Tom Paine, and stumbling across an allegory: Tom Paine,
symbol of freedom and revolt, co-opted into the role of Patriot by
textbooks and statue committees, and now playing, as befits his role
as Patriot, enforcer to a girl who runs for freedom — in chains, to
the South, the source of vitality in America, in America's music —
away from Tom Paine. We have turned our history on its head; we have
perverted our own myths..."

[Just Walkin']

Post by really real

Post by Just Walkin'
It's also sung in the present, so it's a lesson that is still
unfolding rather than one that has already found resolution and
subsequent encapsulation in the past.

I've been wondering, Just Walking, if it isn't the affirmation in JWH
you like so much, but something else. I find most of the JWH songs to be
too weird to be successful. They're obscurely preachy. "As I Went Out
One Morning?" That song doesn't go anywhere for me. I like Dear
Landlord, but that's kind of a protest song. For me, the only really
affirmative song is the one that doesn't belong, "I'll Be Your Baby
Tonight."
I find a lot of affirmative joy in the BOTT songs.

Bob is learning his craft. He carries forward the things he learns. He
probably also has a pretty sizeable backlog of learned stuff he has
yet to share with us. JWH was an early attempt to write using a new
voice timeless rather than timely songs. Same with the basement stuff.
BOTT took those lessons learned and applied them to an earlier voice.
No wonder you like it, despite the pain he communicates, not as
lessons, but as inevitabilities.

But Bob has gone through several "adjustment" periods in which he has
to swab the decks clean and set a new course. So far, even with all
the grousing, most of us will agree that the voyage has been pretty
good. I know I've gotten pretty far myself on the inspiration alone,
even if my collection or recollection is incomplete.

There's a lot of life-affirming learned and natural beauty on Modern
Times too, you know...

[Jumbo]

Post by Just Walkin'

Post by really real

Post by Just Walkin'
It's also sung in the present, so it's a lesson that is still
unfolding rather than one that has already found resolution and
subsequent encapsulation in the past.

I've been wondering, Just Walking, if it isn't the affirmation in JWH
you like so much, but something else. I find most of the JWH songs to be
too weird to be successful. They're obscurely preachy. "As I Went Out
One Morning?" That song doesn't go anywhere for me. I like Dear
Landlord, but that's kind of a protest song. For me, the only really
affirmative song is the one that doesn't belong, "I'll Be Your Baby
Tonight."
I find a lot of affirmative joy in the BOTT songs.

Bob is learning his craft. He carries forward the things he learns. He
probably also has a pretty sizeable backlog of learned stuff he has
yet to share with us. JWH was an early attempt to write using a new
voice timeless rather than timely songs. Same with the basement stuff.
BOTT took those lessons learned and applied them to an earlier voice.
No wonder you like it, despite the pain he communicates, not as
lessons, but as inevitabilities.
But Bob has gone through several "adjustment" periods in which he has
to swab the decks clean and set a new course. So far, even with all
the grousing, most of us will agree that the voyage has been pretty
good. I know I've gotten pretty far myself on the inspiration alone,
even if my collection or recollection is incomplete.
There's a lot of life-affirming learned and natural beauty on Modern
Times too, you know...

I agree with your general point. I always heard "If you cannot bring
good news then don't bring any" as Dylan's criticism of his earlier
self as author of viriolic self-righteous songs like LARS and Pos 4th
Street. I also agree with Donald that there is a joyful sound in LARS,
but I think you were talking about lyrical content.

As for really real's idea that there's a lot of nastiness on JWH ...
it's allegorical nastiness, as in Red Riding Hood. No wolves or
grandmas were harmed in the making of that fairy tale. As for As I
Went Out One Morning, RR is just too linear to get it.

[really real]

Post by Just Walkin'
Bob is learning his craft. He carries forward the things he learns. He
probably also has a pretty sizable backlog of learned stuff he has
yet to share with us. JWH was an early attempt to write using a new
voice timeless rather than timely songs. Same with the basement stuff.

Exactly! The same with the basement stuff. That's where the really
joyous shift took place.


I think it might be a bit condescending to say that Bob is learning his
craft. True, he not busing creating is busy making bad art, but I feel
the real miracle is that he's found a way to keep on keepin on. I don't
think he's going to be at the top of his form again.

Post by Just Walkin'
BOTT took those lessons learned and applied them to an earlier voice.
No wonder you like it, despite the pain he communicates, not as
lessons, but as inevitabilities.
But Bob has gone through several "adjustment" periods in which he has
to swab the decks clean and set a new course. So far, even with all
the grousing, most of us will agree that the voyage has been pretty
good. I know I've gotten pretty far myself on the inspiration alone,
even if my collection or recollection is incomplete.
There's a lot of life-affirming learned and natural beauty on Modern
Times too, you know...

[Janice]

Post by Just Walkin'

No way.  LARS is as much a parable as anything on JWH.  It's just sung from
the inside out.  Of course you can learn to live by LARS.  You follow your
feelings and instincts rather than over intelectualizing.  You're honest,
not hypocritical, humble not vain. etc. etc.

Thanks for this insight: "It's just sung from the inside out."
It's also sung in the present, so it's a lesson that is still
unfolding rather than one that has already found resolution and
subsequent encapsulation in the past.

Yes, I was also thinking that Like a Rolling Stone was an inside out
song.... it feels like dylan is talking to himself, reviewing his own
behavior, and consequently (and the present tense helps with this)
when I hear it, I feel like I'm talking to myself in the lyrics. I am
honestly assessing and shaking my head at my own actions. But here is
where the joyousness comes from... there is such great freedom in
honesty, ... and because this behavior has cost everything, I can no
longer be that person because I have been stripped. Which leads to
the lines of ultimate liberation, and thus ultimate joy:

When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose
You're invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal.

It doesn't get much cleaner than that. Those are words of rebirth.
No history, transparency. Celebrate!

Also, I always felt that the Bootleg Series 1-3 presented a kinder,
gentler Bob. These seemed like softer versions of many songs that
were eventually produced with the old snarl, and gave me a whole
different idea of who Bob might be.

~`~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Just Walkin']

Post by Janice
Yes, I was also thinking that Like a Rolling Stone was an inside out
song.... it feels like dylan is talking to himself, reviewing his own
behavior, and consequently (and the present tense helps with this)
when I hear it, I feel like I'm talking to myself in the lyrics. I am
honestly assessing and shaking my head at my own actions. But here is
where the joyousness comes from... there is such great freedom in
honesty, ... and because this behavior has cost everything, I can no
longer be that person because I have been stripped. Which leads to

He's in the middle of one end of someone's lesson being learned. His
role is the word made real.

Oliver Hardy to Stan Laurel: "Here's another fine mess you've gotten
me into!"

Post by Janice
When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose
You're invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal.
It doesn't get much cleaner than that. Those are words of rebirth.
No history, transparency. Celebrate!

[really real]

Post by frinjdwelr
Reminds me of James McMurtry's joke on npr.org In the story on record
stores he reads the inscription on his vinyl copy of Bob's first album that
he bought in mono at his local drug store many years ago. As part of the
Columbia tech info it states "In short, you can purchase this record with no
fear of its becoming obsolete."

I love seeing things like that. Technology looks very funny when viewed
through its 20 year old advertisements.

The irony is, a mono vinyl first Dylan pressing has probably become less
obsolete than any other version of it.

[Babs]

Post by Just Walkin'
As a result, I have gained new respect and admiration for the songs of
John Wesley Harding and an ability to see where Bob reaches for
inspiration in his latter day compositions. Hence I can only conclude
that JWH is one of the most underrated albums of all time and stands
alone its greatness among his other great works. One day we will have
a better more equitable society in which Bob's music of affirmation
has become a living part of our culture while his negations, diatribes
and polemics (be them of war, racism, or even Andy Warhol) become
curious scourgeful relics of the past.
Anyone else feel this way?

Always glad to hear someone else appreciates JWH. It remains my
favorite Bob Dylan album. I think this has something to do with where
I was in my life when I first heard it. But I agree that it
is an outstanding album. I appreciate your prediction for a more
equitable society, but I wouldn't want any of Bob's songs considered
relics of the past if this were to mean discounting them. Even in a
perfect world, they could serve as reminders of the fragility of
freedom.

[Rodger Gendrin]

Just one further thing on that point.
Bob had the motorcycle accident and had withdrawn, although there were
rumors that he was doing something up in Woodstock. There was great
anticipation about a new album, and when it finally came out, it was
shockingly against the grain of everything else that was going on in the pop
music world. It was back to acoustic. It was simple. It was quiet. It had
zero to do with drugs, sex and rock and roll, or so it seemed. It was great
then and it is greater now.

Post by Just Walkin'
As a result, I have gained new respect and admiration for the songs of
John Wesley Harding and an ability to see where Bob reaches for
inspiration in his latter day compositions. Hence I can only conclude
that JWH is one of the most underrated albums of all time and stands
alone its greatness among his other great works. One day we will have
a better more equitable society in which Bob's music of affirmation
has become a living part of our culture while his negations, diatribes
and polemics (be them of war, racism, or even Andy Warhol) become
curious scourgeful relics of the past.
Anyone else feel this way?

Always glad to hear someone else appreciates JWH. It remains my
favorite Bob Dylan album. I think this has something to do with where
I was in my life when I first heard it. But I agree that it
is an outstanding album. I appreciate your prediction for a more
equitable society, but I wouldn't want any of Bob's songs considered
relics of the past if this were to mean discounting them. Even in a
perfect world, they could serve as reminders of the fragility of
freedom.